French
DeutschTemplate talk:Campaignbox Eighty Years' War
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 | On 29 July 2022, it was proposed that this page be moved from Template:Campaignbox Dutch Revolt to Template:Campaignbox Eighty Years' War. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Sieges of Breda
[edit]I first want to compliment the maker of this template and the maker of the stubs about all the battles of the Eighty Years' War. I however wonder if the "Sieges of Breda" could be shuffled a bit: Some recent digging in the number of sieges of the city in the War turned out that there were 5, not 4. In fact, the only place that switched hands more during the War was Schenkenschans, an otherwise unimportant fortress which was captured and recaptured no less then 6 times. Anyway, the proper listing of sieges of Breda should be:
- Siege of Breda (1577), 1st siege: captured by Philip von Hohenlohe for the Dutch.
- Siege of Breda (1581), 2nd siege: captured by Claude de Berlaymont for the Spanish.
- Siege of Breda (1590), 3rd siege: captured by Maurice of Orange for the Dutch.
- Siege of Breda (1624-1625), 4th siege: captured by Ambrosio Spinola for the Spanish.
- Siege of Breda (1637), 5th siege: captured by Frederick Henry for the Dutch.
The first siege I believe was a rather minor affair, but a siege nonetheless. Should it be added to the box? Tom 20:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Battle of Ponta Delgada
[edit]The Battle of Ponta Delgada was not part of the Eighty Years' War, but part of the 1580 Portuguese succession crisis even if it coincided with that war. I'm correcting it. The Ogre (talk) 10:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Rijmenam and Schenkenschans
[edit]I have added the Battle of Rijmenam (1578) and the Siege of Schenkenschans (1635-6) as these were both important events that should be represented. I noticed that the template does not seem to be quite up-to-date as far as editability is concerned, but I am not sufficiently familiar with campaign boxes to attempt an edit in this respect.--Ereunetes (talk) 19:04, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
- You can find the most complete list list of battles on the dutch wiki: nl:Lijst_van_gevechten_in_de_Tachtigjarige_Oorlog. It's a long list to put in a campaign box, so on the NL-wiki several battles have been put together in different military campaigns, such as in the case of Maurice's campaign of 1597. Rijmenam wasn't on the list yet, however, thanks for pointing that out. I'll try to add a dutch version soon. Kweniston (talk) 22:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Spanish Furies
[edit]Here is a referenced text that I had introduced in an article (where it might be modified, therefore here repeated):
On 2 October 1572, despite the city of Mechelen's surrender and welcoming him by the singing of psalms, Fadrique Álvarez de Toledo, son of the Governor of the Netherlands, and commander of the Duke's troops, allowed his men a three days long massacre, rape and pillage of the archbishopric city, sparing neither Protestants nor Catholics. Alba reported to his King that "not a nail was left in the wall". A year later, magistrates still attempted to retrieve precious church belongings that Spanish soldiers had sold in other cities.[SH 1][SH 2] This sack of Mechelen was the first of the Spanish Furies;[SH 3][SH 4][SH 5][SH 6] several events remembered by that name occurred in the four or five years to come.[SH 7] In November and December of the same year, with permission by the Duke, Fadrique had the entire populations killed of Zutphen, bloodily, and of Naarden, locked and burnt in their church.[SH 2][SH 8] In July 1573, after half a year of siege, the city of Haarlem surrendered. Then the garrison's men (except for the German soldiers) were drowned or got their throat cut by the duke's troops, and eminent citizens were executed.[SH 2]
References SH
- ^ Arnade, Peter J. Beggars, iconoclasts, and civic patriots: the political culture of the Dutch Revolt. Cornell University Press, 2008 (Limited online by Google books). p. p. 226-229. ISBN 978-0-8014-7496-5. Retrieved 31 July 2011.
{{cite book}}:|page=has extra text (help); More than one of|pages=and|page=specified (help) - ^ a b c Elsen, Jean (2007). "De nood-en belegeringsmunten van de Nederlandse opstand tegen Filips II - Historisch kader" (PDF). Collection J.R. Lasser (New York). Nood- en belegeringsmunten, Deel II (in Dutch). Jean Elsen & ses Fils s.a., Brussels, Belgium. p. p. 4. Retrieved 1 August 2011.
{{cite web}}:|page=has extra text (help); External link in|publisher=|pages=and|page=specified (help); Unknown parameter|month=ignored (help) - ^ GDB (7 September 2004). "'Spaanse furie' terug thuis". journal Het Nieuwsblad, Belgium. Retrieved 31 July 2011.
- ^ pagan-live-style (©2009-2011). "Catherine church Mechelen 3". deviantArt. Retrieved 3 August 2011.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help); External link in|publisher= - ^ "Sold Items provided for Reference and Research Purposes — OHN Bellingham - Assassin, St Petersburg, Russia, 3 December 1806 - ALS". Berryhill & Sturgeon, Ltd. Retrieved 3 August 2011.
{{cite web}}: External link in|publisher= - ^ "History - South-Limburg". Parkstad.com, Limburg, Netherlands. Retrieved 3 August 2011.
{{cite web}}: External link in|publisher= - ^ Burg, David F. "1567 Revolt of the Netherlands". A World History of Tax Rebellions - An Encyclopedia of Tax Rebels, Revolts, and Riots from Antiquity to the Present. Taylor and Francis, London, UK, 2003, 2005; Routledge, 2004 (Online by BookRags, Inc). ISBN 978-0-203-50089-7. Retrieved 4 August 2011.
in Madrid, Alba was accused of following his own whims rather than Philip's wishes. According to Henry Kamen, Medinaceli reported to the king that "Excessive rigour, the misconduct of some officers and soldiers, and the Tenth Penny, are the cause of all the ills, and not heresy or rebellion." —[...]— One of the governor's officers reported that in the Netherlands "the name of the house of Alba" was held in abhorrence
{{cite book}}: External link in|publisher= - ^ Lamers, Jaqueline. "Gemeente Naarden – Keverdijk, diverse straten". Municipality of Naarden, Netherlands. Retrieved 31 July 2011.
This shows that the earlier 'Capture of Mechelen' red link in the template should be 'Spanish Fury at Mechelen', also still a red link. And that Zutphen is not only to be mentioned for the battle in 1586 but already also for 1572. As the entire population was massacred, a name like 'battle' or 'siege' would not be appropriate, hence 'Massacre of Zutphen' as for the next town: Naarden suffered a similar or even more gruesome faith while it had not defended itself. In a few WP articles I found the term 'Massacre of Naarden' (without link, there is still no article). Though on the Dutch WP the term for Blood bath is used, in fact it is a misnomer for Naarden at which many people were killed by fire. Note:
- nl:Spaanse Furie (Mechelen)
- nl:Bloedbad van Zutphen (Dutch 'bloedbad' = literally blood bath, or more general massacre)
- File:Massacre_of_Naarden_(1572)_-_Bloedbad_van_Naarden_(Frans_Hogenberg).jpg
- nl:Bloedbad_van_Naarden
_-_Bloedbad_van_Naarden_(Frans_Hogenberg).jpg){kind=link}
To my even greater surprise, Antwerp was only mentioned for its fall, not for the bestknown Spanish Fury it suffered in 1576, even though its article 'Sack of Antwerp' exists, with a redirect from 'Spanish Fury at Antwerp'. See also Spanish Fury. The Siege of Haarlem was already in the template.
There was also the 'Spanish Fury at Aalst' just before Antwerp in 1576 (Antwerp became attacked from Aalst). See Blomme. It does not have an article even on the Dutch-language WP.
This justifies my today's change of the template. I put years behind the doubles Zutphen and Antwerp, because unlike for other places, their two events were not both of a same nature.
▲ SomeHuman 2011-08-09 13:34-14:23 (UTC)
Update: A few more modifications to the template were needed: The name of a (future) article should be 'Sack of Aalst' (like 'Sack of Antwerp') which should get a redirect from 'Spanish Fury at Aalst' (like 'Spanish Fury at Antwerp). Because Mechelen was sacked twice, and each has its own typical name, those articles should be named 'Spanish Fury at Mechelen' (in 1572) and 'English Fury at Mechelen' (in 1580). In 1576, there was also a Spanish Fury at Maastricht (just before the one at Antwerp, which was sacked by mutineers coming from Aalst as well as by military that came from Maastricht, see [1]), but as the 'Siege of Maastricht' of 1579 ended in what became referred to as the second Spanish Fury at Maastricht, the article for the first should be 'Spanish Fury at Maastricht (1576)' — I already created redirects 'Second Spanish Fury at Maastricht' and 'Spanish Fury at Maastricht (1579)' to 'Siege of Maastricht'.
Consequently, this is the whole of last week's + today's changes.
▲ SomeHuman 2011-08-12 04:13 (UTC)
Requested move 29 July 2022
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. uncontested. ran for 16 days. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 06:22, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Template:Campaignbox Dutch Revolt → Template:Campaignbox Eighty Years' War – Consistency with main article following merge, see Talk:Eighty Years' War#Proposed article scheme. I don't expect anyone to disagree, but it's possible. There were some initial objections to the merge, but those only dealt with size, and that has been taken care of by splitting the main articles up into multiple period-specific articles. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:51, 29 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:55, 6 August 2022 (UTC)