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Crystal Balling
[edit]Including the upcoming album Brand New Eyes isn't crystal balling at this point as it's been announced that the album is coming out. If it's still debatable that the album is coming out, then the wiki page needs to be deleted. Crystal balling would be fan speculation. Darwin's Bulldog (talk) 07:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm afraid you haven't read or fully grasped WP:CRYSTAL. What if something happens, a legal challenge, a technological challenge, a band dispute, whatever, that prevents the album from ever actually being released. However unlikely this might be, it's a possibility. This is why wikipedia discourages putting up future information. Brand New Eyes may NEVER be released, in which case, we would have been violating WP:CRYSTAL the entire time. We can say they PLAN to release such and such album at such and such date in the article for the band itself. However, to list it as a released album is incorrect. Wikiwikikid (talk) 12:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- Then delete the wiki page for Brand New Eyes. As per your logic this album might not ever come out. See the page for Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy, an album that was held back for several years yet still had its own wikipage and was included in the group's infobox. In the GNR case, and many other current albums set to come out, the album was included in the group's infobox. Also, infoboxes don't state that an album is released, they just differentiate between studio, live, compilation albums and such. After an official statement is released (via the band, record label, or other credible source) it is no longer crystal balling and is common practice on Wikipedia to include the group's upcoming single, album, etc. in their infobox. See the Rolling Stone article regarding this album's release [1], Rolling Stone being a musical paper of record.Darwin's Bulldog (talk) 17:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- To avoid this from getting out of control, I've asked for a Third Opinion at [[2]]. Darwin's Bulldog (talk) 17:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- I thought the purpose of navboxes was to easily navigate through articles that all relate to the same thing. In this case, a band and their albums, singles, etc. Brand New Eyes is a link relating to Paramore, so shouldn't it be in the template, regardless if it was released or not? A template is just a collection of links, and we have a link, so why can't it be included? Also, there are many articles that have been created about things such as video games, movies, albums, or whatever that have not been released. Isn't that the reason for the future tag?
- To avoid this from getting out of control, I've asked for a Third Opinion at [[2]]. Darwin's Bulldog (talk) 17:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- Then delete the wiki page for Brand New Eyes. As per your logic this album might not ever come out. See the page for Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy, an album that was held back for several years yet still had its own wikipage and was included in the group's infobox. In the GNR case, and many other current albums set to come out, the album was included in the group's infobox. Also, infoboxes don't state that an album is released, they just differentiate between studio, live, compilation albums and such. After an official statement is released (via the band, record label, or other credible source) it is no longer crystal balling and is common practice on Wikipedia to include the group's upcoming single, album, etc. in their infobox. See the Rolling Stone article regarding this album's release [1], Rolling Stone being a musical paper of record.Darwin's Bulldog (talk) 17:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm afraid you haven't read or fully grasped WP:CRYSTAL. What if something happens, a legal challenge, a technological challenge, a band dispute, whatever, that prevents the album from ever actually being released. However unlikely this might be, it's a possibility. This is why wikipedia discourages putting up future information. Brand New Eyes may NEVER be released, in which case, we would have been violating WP:CRYSTAL the entire time. We can say they PLAN to release such and such album at such and such date in the article for the band itself. However, to list it as a released album is incorrect. Wikiwikikid (talk) 12:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
{{future}} The article already has this, so it is clear that things may still change. Fantasy Dragon (talk) 18:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- I will concede that it does make more sense to have it in the template than on the discography page or on in the discography under the main article itself. If there is consensus, I'm open to it being listed here as it does make sense that it increases ease of navigation for related articles.Wikiwikikid (talk) 19:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
- It's far too early in the process to say for sure that the album will definetely be released. According to policy only events that are 'almost certain to take place'. In terms of music releases there is no such thing. Albums far more complete than the stage this album is at have had the plug pulled on them. The only source for this is a blog. We should wait until there is an official announcement by the label. --neon white talk 12:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
- With all due respect, I really honestly think an example of musical 'Crystal Balling' refers to someone (most like a fan) posting that a new album is coming out titled "_______" and they don't have any citation or proof. This album was announced by the band in question via their website, and the cover art was also released. An upcoming single is also expected. It will be released eventually, and if not, it will become notable for having never been released! The G'n'R "Chinese Democracy" arguement works here. I would totally agree with you if there wasn't a link to the main Paramore sitem, but since there is, this really isn't Crystal Balling.--Gen. Quon (talk) 01:00, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
- It's far too early in the process to say for sure that the album will definetely be released. According to policy only events that are 'almost certain to take place'. In terms of music releases there is no such thing. Albums far more complete than the stage this album is at have had the plug pulled on them. The only source for this is a blog. We should wait until there is an official announcement by the label. --neon white talk 12:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)