User talk:JackyR

Wikibreak: till after 25 June

• Talk Archive: Oct 2005-Feb 2006
• Talk:ZyXoas' archive
• User talk:ZyXoas

(And above, his very own archive!) === Ye goode olde Uncyclopedia Britt === Hey, kewl! Afraid somebody will block me, you, and anybody else who's ever written on your talk page if he sees what I've just said? Is the EB info on Basotho worse than what you get when you look up "Basuto" on dictionary.com? Does its entry for "Kaffir" talk about amaXhosa? I've never eaten anyone - I promise. Talk to you about ancestors later today (I nearly said tomorrow). Bye! User:ZyXoas 23:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC) == Africans == When I say African I do not at all mean "Black" since, as everyone knows, race is a myth - more on that some other day. You lived in Botswana, you love Mopane worms, so you probably know what you're talking about. Writing an article on the Internet on Africa using info on the Internet is obviously not a bright idea. It's like the "old" US edu policy where the state would under-fund "black" schools, test them, then cut funding when they find them to be innately stupid. As you may have heard, there's an entire continent out there of Africans, asks them a few questions, and you'll be like my good buddie User:JackyR who learns something new every day! === Ancestors === Oh man, where do I begin? I think I'll get out of bed and make myself some breakfast, first. Talk to you later. User:ZyXoas 08:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC) == African religion == The text is African Religions and Philosophy by John_Mbiti (1969,1990). It's not perfect, having been written by a Christian trying to show how great ATR African_Traditional_Religion is by slyly showing it to be similar to Christianity. Thus, for example (in my opinion) African monotheism is rightly demonstrated but the role of God is a bit exaggerated since ATR is more about the family including the living-dead (ancestors).[reply]

However, it was truly an amazing feat considering how little believable info there was on Africans back then. The fact that Mbiti was from Kenya obviously helped. The book caused a bigger stir than he had imagined and he went on to write a few more texts on African religion and philosophy. === The nature of Ancestors === Ancestors are basically relatives from a higher generation who arealmost dead (living-dead). Not everyone dead is your ancestor for the role of African religion. 1st They need to have acquired a shadow through initiation (this is a bit of a difficult concept - ask your friend who speaks Setswana what "seriti/serithi" means and how it differs from "moriti/morithi"). 2nd They need to have been reasonably important when alive (had a large shadow). 3rd There needs to be people who remember then by name and by the way they looked (their shadow still exists). One can remain in this state for many decades until the last person who knew your shadow dies; you then cease to be living-dead and are no longer an ancestor - almost having never existed. === Their role === Being spiritual beings, ancestors have special powers which they can use for blessing or harming the living. Also, since people still remember your shadow they find it much much easier to talk to you than to talk to God. They are aware that God exists, but only because of certain creations and calamities which even ancestors couldn't have done - they have no direct knowledge of God, only of their ancestors' shadows. The fact that you cease to exist once the last person who knew you dies is yet another example of Ubuntu. Ubuntu is basicallly about the fact that your shadow only exists because other people can experience it. === Animism === This is patently not Animism since in Animism the spirits which cause all to exist or be animated are an infinite number of non-human entities. There are some psuedo-human spiritual beings, most notably water spirits/people, who do sometimes interfere in human affairs and can be used by sorcerers, they are however not very important in day to day life. === Language === African philosophy is reflected in the languages. One example I've mentioned is the difference between serithi and morithi. Another is how the concept of 2 dimensional time is part of the tenses (as explained by Mbiti). Another is the lack of a singular for "ancestors" - you say that someone is one of the ancestors. The fact that in Sesotho Modimo is class 1 and badimo is class 2 might lead one to believe that ancestors are gods but this is false. The absence of a plural for God is very common in the languages. Sesotho versions of the Bible put Modimo in class 5 with plural medimo. It's unnatural to use non-human concords when speaking of God and most people including Christians keep God in class 1. === Now you know === Being a rationalist I do not claim to be an expert in a belief system I do not practice but if you have any more questions ask me and I'll try to answer to the best me my knowledge. User:ZyXoas 09:34, 17 March 2006 (UTC) == Kgotla == Yes, I'm worried about the prefix. In South African English the term used is Sesotho "lekgotla" and it's used exclusively when talking about Government discussions. The ODSAE says "a strategy planning meeting ... convened by government ...". I can imagine people opposing the idea of having 2 entries although the words are used in different countries and come from "different" langs and cultures. User:ZyXoas 13:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC) DONE pending comments JackyR 17:28, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

== Nguni == Here is linguistic evidence that "Nguni" or at least "Ngoni" is a very old term. In the Sesotho languages the words for North and South are Bokone and Borwa, they mean "in the direction of the Nguni" and "in the direction of the KhoiSan". "But," I hear you say "don't the Nguni live to the East or South East of the SLG speakers?". Today, yes; hundreds of years ago, no. At least one source says that more than 1000 years ago the ancient Basotho and Nguni were living in Zambia, Basotho South of the Zambezi, the Nguni North of the Zambezi, and the KhoiSan many kilometres South in Botswana. When they left the place a small group went North East to the East coast, Basotho went to the Okavango delta and got scattered in Botswana and central South Africa. The Nguni moved as a large group and setled in the South African East and South East coasts. There are a few problems with this idea like the claim that Lozi were a small Basotho clan who got left behind - the current thinking is that they were Difaqane conquerers like amaNdebele. A much more serious problem, however, is the fact that SLG Kone sounds like it comes from Ngoni and not Nguni. This sound shift is not impossible but it does make me wonder.
So now that you know the truth, be sure to spread it around, ight? User:ZyXoas 14:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

== Minor notes == Kone is not a word in SLG - it is a root. The word is Mokone. African_Traditional_Religion is the term used to talk about the remarkably homogeneous, complex, yet intuitive religion shared by most Sub-Saharan African societies, and this should be the article. Perhaps you might like to mention this on the WP:CSB Open Tasks notice board? I think it's WP:CSBOT. DONE JackyR 14:48, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, could you please add my name to Wikipedia:Project_Countering_systemic_bias/members mentioning my knowledge of African linguistics and culture as well as the technical side of music production (many of the current articles on this are written by people with mediocre knowledge who have difficulty edoxpressing themselves properly, see Audio_level_compression). Enjoy your weekend. User:ZyXoas 00:41, 18 March 2006 (UTC) DONE JackyR 14:48, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, it's Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias/members and don't mention what I said about the sound articles - they are not that bad but they still need a bit of polish. User:ZyXoas 00:56, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

== Neglect == Going through my talk page I notice that I've neglected many of your questions, so I'll try to answer some of them here. === Umbrella terms === Yes, Nguni is an umbrella term for various languages and "ethnic groups". Such is the nature of Africa that calling these people "related" would be misleading - they are distinguished by their cultures and languages, not genetics. There are few "tribes" in Africa, if any. It's a bit unfortunate that Moshoeshoe's nation adopted the ancient name "Basotho" as this tends to confuse many people. Before Difaqane, Bamokotedi as well as most of the other clans living in central RSA and the Setswana speaking clans in the North West and Botswana all called themselves Basotho, after their ancient common ancestors. So you need to keep the context in mind when deciding what "Sesotho" and "Basotho" mean.

=== Thatayamodimo === Are you sure it's not "Thatoyamodimo"? That would explain why you thought it meant "Love of God". "Thato" means "will/desire". It comes from the verb "go rata" (Kintu "kutanda") meaning "to desire" which gives rise to "lorato" (Kintu "lutando") meaning "love" and "thato" (Kintu "ntando") meaning "desire". The root "-dimo" in SLG is not just in "Modimo" and "badimo" but also "ledimo" ("cannibal") and "hodimo" ("above") - all extraordinary words. === History textbooks === No, I don't have any History textbooks as I never did History in High School (nor did I do Sesotho, btw). I find it difficult to do as well as I would like in "parrot" (memorising) subjects so I dropped it when I had to choose my Grade 10 subjects. === Animism === I think the myth of Animism in Africa is an exaggerated misunderstanding. The definition on Animism has obviously been modified to include "Ancestor_veneration" since "no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge". === English L1 === Perhaps the reason why you think my English is so superb is because of my knowledge of the jargons of so many fields. The fact that my phone has a spell-checker together with my trusty olde "concise" ODSAE makes it seem like I have near-perfect spelling. Also, my sometimes inappropriate ("colourful", in your words) sarcasm and humour gives one the (not remarkably incorrect) impression that I have a firm grasp of the English language. I'm just a smart-ass!

=== Crazed stalker lady! === Okay, so you didn't say my English was "superb", but... Did you see my name or "my" IP in connexion with the CSIR? The computer I used in the Internet "Cafe" (one of those 5 rand per hour ones with 1 Mbps connections dotted around the Johannesburg CBD) had a crazy schizophrenic IP address that perpetually changed. I can't remember ever having been at the CSIR for anything at all. Perhaps it was my doppelganger...
About university, I'm "at" Unisa. Let's just say that if intelligence was the only criterion for academic success then I would be doing a Masters in Computer Science at Wits - but it isn't, and I'm not. Talk to you later, then? User:ZyXoas 12:18, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

== My alter ego == What are you talking about? I though you were still sleeping! I'm also stressing about all my university modules - what was I thinking registering for 9 year modules!?!
I need a new user login - any suggestions for a new user name? The best I can come up with is "User:My_bazooka_is_bigger_than_yours" so... When you think of me, what do you think? User:Oh_no_not_more_useless_unsolicited_pedantic_facts ? User:ZyXoas 17:46, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

== "and his bazooka was like THIS BIG!" == It's a (very bad) sexual joke-like-thingy. I had seriously never thought of capitalisation. If I still can't remember my password and I create a new user page can I ask you to move the contents of my old page and talk page and redirect them to the new ones? I need to go submit some assignments tomorrow so I won't be going to sleep at 2 in the morning for a change... User:ZyXoas 19:07, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

== Sleep == Your brother's in the army? That's rather unfortunate. Is it just me or does that picture of Everest on the site look a bit weird? It reminds me of the signal shapes I've observed while passing triangle waves through an aggressive audio compressor (back when my ears were not good enough for me to hear the subtle effect). I'm going to sleep now. Talk to you tomorrow. User:ZyXoas 20:53, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I was wrong. Crzrussian 16:37, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article I totally re-wrote on the Mopane Worm needs a peer-review before I consider submitting it as a Featured Article. Are you up to the task? Drop me a line! Ssteedman 13:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. Sorry if my comment on Talk:Mopane worm was a bit defensive - I've just had a run of such stuff lately. The article looks a helluva lot better than it did. I'll do it for grammar and the little I know, and pass it to some Zimbabweans for more. Cheers, JackyR 15:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, if you're in Jo'burg you can probably do better than I - print it out and pass it around friends and colleagues for comment! JackyR 15:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, your work on the article is wonderful! I need to find sources for the article, any suggestions? The article went up to be Featured, but I think it may be prevented from doing so without necessary citation. Any ideas? I'm going to have a snoop around for some good books... Stuart Steedman 21:35, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies - it was discourteous of me not to have replied before. Sorry.

I must admit that I saw it more as your project than mine, althlugh I did encourage you to do it. I would encourage you to persist - the lists of professors are interesting, as are the articles on the professors that do and don't exist - some of those redlinks need filling!

I think the table looks best - I find it the easiest on my eyes - but a well-set-out list would be entirely adequate. The more information that you add (e.g. links to lectures), the more a table will be best, IMHO. Having said that, some of the mock-ups that you have created are quite nice too. I would go with whichever format you like best and find the easiest. (One tip - you can do he formatting offline, in a normal word processor, and then cut-and-paste the results into the article).

The first step is getting the information into Wikipedia, though. Good luck! -- ALoan (Talk) 17:30, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Saw it more as your project than mine"? You're management, aren't you :-) Yeh, I've had the data for a while: was waiting on your opinion. Sounds like you still didn't check out all the mock-ups (the tables, below the lists?). Never mind. I'm clearly getting cranky at the moment, and should take a wiki-break (and paracetemol)... :-/ JackyR 20:38, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Management? Not entirely :) As I say, getting the data in in the first place is the main thing: a wikignome (like me) can sort out the format afterwards (I just did a few global search/replaces on your astronomy list). For preference, from your mockups, I would either pick the simplest bullet point list or a simple table. I like the idea of links to recent lectures, although their archiove does not go back too far, and even the titles will not be available very far back. -- ALoan (Talk) 21:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'd actually done this before getting the above. It seems OK in all skins, tho the cell margins in the first col are not great. Perhaps you could display your wikignome-ness by fixing this? :-) (Custom wikitables seem to have minimum border=1, which is horrid - but you can probably fix this.) It's not urgent - I just need to know so I don't plough on and format, then have to throw it all out. Cheers, JackyR 21:45, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More importantly, putting in lectures gives this, which could be a prob. JackyR 22:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

Waves back from too far. :)

I'm in Ashford and messing with a few sites covering east Kent. The pic is from the Thannington Hotel web site, they gave me permission to use it.

I like your Quick cut and pastes section

Chris 15:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did the revert in error. I apologise for this and any inconvience I may have caused. Rest assured, I was acting within good faith. However, if you feel a vandalism warning is fit - feel free to use one. Computerjoe 15:44, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry; it was a simple mistake. I meant you no harm, you could even argue I was trying to help you. I apologise for this mistake and hope there's no need to discuss it any further. Thank you. Computerjoe 17:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was in no way trying to attack you or the other editor in question. I have the same access, in a manner of the things I can do as an editor, as any other editor. Though, connectivity wise I have an advantage as I'm on a 512k connection. If you don't think I'm a good Wikipedian, I aplogise, but assure you I am. Computerjoe 17:50, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and I don't want to turn your (prompt and completely accepted) apology into a big deal. Systemic bias isn't caused by bad individuals - but is a bad thing. Which can tackled ? if you're up for it! Anyway, have a good weekend. all the best, JackyR 18:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can assure you in no way I didn't mean bias. However, I am willing to tackle it. Computerjoe 21:03, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've responded on my Meta talk page. Essjay ^{Talk ? Contact} 10:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The more I read about it, the more interesting it becomes... :-) Saint|swithin 16:52, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ping--Eloquence* 08:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jacky,

I am looking for people to contribute on the articles linking off the Timeline of Zimbabwe history. It is similar to the Timeline of South African history. Thanks --Jcw69 18:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks --Jcw69 06:24, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've posted a reply to your question on the Tom and Jerry talk page. Ben Finn 12:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your question on my german user page and sorry for the late answer. It has been quite a long time, since a wrote about the Nguni. I guess, there was no Nguni-people first, that name came from Whites (assumedly it's a African word but used by Whites) and has combined different peoples. But of course there might now be, that the Nguni-people self-identify as Nguni. --Napa 09:25, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! Who's this person "ZyXoas" you've been talking to lately? I am the real Zyxoas! Do you promise to stop talking to this vile fraud?

Apparently I can't move my old user page and talk page contents because I'm too new (thanks, Willie on Wheels...). Could you perhaps tell me how to create a subsection in my User space ("Zyxoas/ZyXoas_Talk")?

About Willie on Wheels; what if I created a new user named "William_Wallace", would I get blocked...?

Anyhoo, I'm going over to Sesotho to see if I can quickly fix it up while I still have access to a real computer...

Zyxoas 12:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You should have warned me you were carrying out my request. I'll wait 20 minutes and see what you've done (I'm watching Charmed - man, that chick from 8 Simple Rules is HOT!). 216.239.58.136 17:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Napa claims the name was used to unify "different" people. Has he read a book on South African history lately? Before Difaqane (remind me to explain to you some day why this term is more correct that "Mfecane") there were the many Nguni dialect speaking clans on the South African East coast as well various isiXhosa speaking clans and nations on the South-East - the difference between their languages and cultures were/are quite small. This sounds to me like a divide-and-conquer theory with an added twist. Africans are not, believe it or not, obsessed with trying every way possible to be different from their neighbours. These is no need for "Whites" (to use Napa's suspicious terminology) to unify Africans by giving "different" peoples one name. I ask you: whom were the Ancient Basotho talking about when they coined the term "Bokone"? 216.239.58.136 21:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Now I keep getting logged out because of my cookies...
Being from RSA, I really see absolutely no need for armies, and the crazy thing is the Americanos seem so proud of their "sons and daughter" in Iraq. When I see how idiotic Vietnam, the Gulf War and now the Iraqi invasion are it makes me wonder if there was ever a valid reason some time in the remote past to keep armies... Look at Japan - they seem perfectly fine living as pacifists. Anyway... 216.239.58.136 22:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I have :) your photos really help as theres many african topics which dont have pictures -- Astrokey44|talk 23:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know I was a nice guy! Could you perhaps simply cut and paste the old user page contents and redirect? There's really no need to keep the old page's history intact. For a great laugh see WP:WoW. Also, if for some reason you're still wikiactive could you look at the source of Sesotho_language and dump the commented sections (<!-- -->) on my talk page? I'll see what I can do about them. (Hopefully I'm not logged out again...) 216.239.58.136 12:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

== Sections == Jacky dearest - I need them uncommented, otherwise they are useless (512 char limit). Otherwise, enjoy your weekend. Zyxoas 14:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC) === Thank you === Great. Now how do I include audio in an article? Of course I need to record it first, but that isn't a problem since I have everything I need on my PC. I think I'll use helpme and ask a kind admin, or repeatedly personally attack Angela? 216.239.58.136 16:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tum-hare avataara? SriZyxoas 16:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I feel bad now! You're right, your discussion page should be able to reflect whatever you like, including the removal of the efforts of others to help you... I will remedy the situation with Anwar saadat immediately. I'm no Wiki-bully and now feel downright lowsy about myself. Budgiekiller 23:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Er, should this article really be called Peter Ab?lard? Pierre Ab?lard, fine. Peter Abelard, also OK (I'm sure the MoS tells us which). But Germanic first name, French second? Uh-uh. Do you mind if I fix this? Cheers, JackyR 21:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_ _ As a matter of mechanics, it looks like anyone can make a move back to Pierre Ab?lard, but it may take an admin to get it to Peter Abelard.

_ _ I don't find your reasoning conclusive: i think there is a greater tendency to anglicize given names than surnames, and w/in WP, i think the Z?rich debate shows we don't think a dicritical mark makes a name anywhere near as foreign as a foreign-language spelling does. But i'm not settling on any strong opinion.

_ _ Bear in mind also that like Confucius and [[Copernicus], his English-language familiarity is probably mediated via Latin -- not sure which of the three sides of the argument that leans toward.

_ _ You might want to consult with User:Ceyockey, whose LoPbN edit led to mine there, and thence to the move you are concerned about; my guess, based on their edit, is that they'll probably agree with you. Also, consider some Google tests restricted to English-language sites, so at least you'll be in a position to anticipate criticism from others who may feel more strongly about it than i.
--Jerzy?t 04:28, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, it looks like you misread User:Ceyockey's LoPbN edit, which does indeed give Pierre Ab?lard and Peter Abelard (and has subsequently been clumsily compacted to Ab?lard, Pierre (Peter). )

You're correct that the English version would have come via Latin (Petrus Abelardus), and indeed the guy seems also to have spelt his surname Abailard, Abaelardus, Abailardus, Abaielardus, Hab?lardus. But Peter Ab?lard is none of these: nor could ever be: it is a partial back-construction from the English/German Peter Abelard and exists only on Wikipedia (as far as a small Google test shows). (Even Pierre Abelard shows on Google, thanks to historic difficulties with typesetting diacritics.)

What should the article be named? MoS isn't very definite, but says things like "Use the most common name of a person". Unlike, say Pierre Joxe, whose name is never translated, Peter Abelard has been called this in English for over 800 years, so I'm inclined to use this. But I really don't care, as long as the chimera is killed.

Since you're an admin, perhaps you could handle the move, leaving this version marked as a mis-spelling (or deleting it altogether). I can do the List of people by name: Ab myself. Very many thanks, JackyR 18:21, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_ _ As i've already said, such chimeras are a natural (and IMO healthy) phenomenon. IMO the only question is whether this one reflects common English-language usage.

_ _ I don't think i missed anything in C'y's edit; my point was that they explicitly advocated for one of your two preferred versions, and implicitly did for the other (by duping it rather than replacing it).

_ _ That's my clumsy revision of C'y's approach, about which i have stronger opinions than i do about the article title. Are you objecting to including the French given name & its translation in the same entry?

My objection to dropping one name from his entry is that both appear in the lead of the article, supporting the likelihood that some users will come to LoPbN looking for one name but not expecting the other, and a few will not realize that they are at all interchangeable and possibly go away disappointed. Neither our user talk pages nor on LoPbN's is a place to settle whether the article is in error in including both given names (nor for that matter whether the diacritic has any role): if you want to pursue that, please copy our discussion to talk:Peter Ab?lard, add to it as you see fit, and see if you can find consensus there. I don't expect to follow that discussion, let alone participate further, as the technical issues re LoPbN are the only part where i see myself as more than another guy in a diner re Abelard.

My objection to returning to having two Abelard entries on LoPbN is that two entries would do the job of getting users to the article worse, rather than better. Any time spent deciding which of two Abelard lks to follow (to the same article) is a waste. Every unneeded entry on Abelard is an impediment, another irrelevant entry for users seeking a different person to possibly rest their eye on for a half second or three seconds, instead of reaching the entry they want that much sooner.

It's crucial that no one has any business referring to LoPbN to get someone's name right, but only to get to their bio and then consult it to get the name right. LoPbN's purpose is swift navigation to bios, and the argument that has always prevailed over a minority who believe that all lists are inherently unencyclopedic is that it is needed as an index into the collection of biographies. (LoPbN is lk'd prominently from the bio-project portal page, and mandated on its WikiProject page.) If you want to know Abelard's correct name, LoPbN's service to you is to get you to the article, which (unlike LoPbN) has a decent chance of beating the truth into the skull of the most stubborn entertainer of misconceptions. LoPbN can't directly help you with that bcz it has no room for nuance, and it shouldn't try bcz every unnecessary particle of info added there for Abelard, and Niels Henrik Abel, and all their neighbors on the page, burdens the navigation of all its users, for whom 99% of that information is useless; in fact, their "own" 1% duplicates what is in the bio article, where they would have to read it a second time.

_ _ As to the title change (an easier question since the potential answers are fewer than with the content of the lead sentence), you're probably right that we can do better. From what you say, i'd guess Peter Abelard is right, and that my acceptance of the diacritic as reasonable in English was probably too much of a stretch. If C'y (whose mind we've both been trying to read) has no objection but doesn't do the move for you, let me know and i will. But if they'd rather see it go to WP:RM first, so would i.
--Jerzy?t 20:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eh?! I think we're at cross-purposes... but only about the unimportant stuff :-)

"Are you objecting to including the French given name & its translation in the same entry [of the LoPbN]?" No! Not at all! I agree with you whole-heartedly! I'm objecting to the fact that you changed the name, from Pierre Ab?lard/Peter Abelard to Peter Ab?lard, creating a neologism. I described the edit as clumsy because I thought someone was trying to represent Pierre Ab?lard/Peter Abelard by writing Pierre Ab?lard (Peter). In fact, as made clear by you also moving the article, it was you deliberately coining Peter Ab?lard: so I'm wrong about the clumsy. Which doesn't make the change OK. It's like referring to Londres, England or Munich, Deutschland.

I'm only posting this here because you say you won't read it under Talk: Peter Ab?lard (where, I agree, the discussion should be if the original change was other than a simple error), and I don't want you getting steamed up over a misunderstanding. Since this has got complicated, I am indeed suggesting the change there (briefly, with a ref to here if anyone cares). JackyR 23:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_ _ Yup, good reason for posting here, especially since LoPbN talk pages hardly ever get responses, and since the exact wording of an LoPbN entry is worth a lot less discussion than the title or content of a bio.

_ _ OK, i did show too little imagination to understand your very sensible concern abt the entry. I find your argument against the diacritic persuasive enuf to remove it from the entry, no problem. Your version is

*Ab?lard, Pierre (Peter Abelard) (1079-1142), French philosopher

which avoids the "chimera" that you complained about. Without my going into why i'd prefer it, is it worth it to you to discuss the difference between that and my first choice,

*Abelard, Peter "Pierre" (1079-1142), French philosopher

or my second,

*Abelard, Peter (Pierre) (1079-1142), French philosopher

? -- still a bit awkward, but still compact, and perhaps less of a chimera.

(And of course if your proposed move takes place, someone should bypass the rdr resulting from it, by editing the Abe section again.)

You're on my watchlist, and i'll watch there for your reply. Thanks for what feels like a pretty fruitful discussion.
--Jerzy?t 03:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thinks... I guess I feel there is still a problem if we use the whole name in one language (eg Peter Abelard) and combine it with only part of the name in the other language (Pierre). (Though as noted above, Pierre Abelard does seem to occur for historic typograhical reasons.) But this must be a common problem! I wonder how it is solved for other translated names? JackyR 16:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll say something here as I was asked by Jerzy to consider this discussion. My reasoning in adding both "Abelard, Peter" and "Ab?lard, Pierre" was predicated on the notion that someone might be looking for one and not know about the other. It's been quite some time since I've done editing on this page set (LoPbN) and I have not delved deeply into the intent for the existence of the pages. I think that intent will determine whether the listing of transformations and alternatives is encouraged or discouraged. The intent of the LoPbN pages is a separate issue from the titling of articles. My shallow understanding of the LoPbN pages is that they present a lookup table approach to finding persons that complements redirections that are invoked during searching. Given this understanding, the listing should be exhaustive but not ad absurdum, in which case both "Abelard, Peter" and "Ab?lard, Pierre" would be desirable to include ... in some form (one presented above is a parenthetical which seems reasonable). On the other hand, if LoPbN is meant as a non-redundant index to assist in achieving biographical completeness for the encyclopedia, one might still desire to have both "Abelard, Peter" and "Ab?lard, Pierre", but only one wikilink, with one of the entries referencing the other as the prime entry, reflecting the desirable title for the article. I feel that the former (lookup assistant) is more helpful than the latter (completeness aid), but I've no idea where the consensus might fall on this issue. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_ _ Thanks, Cey. I throw around my list of "navigational tools" (as distinct from articles) in the main namespace, namely Dabs, rdrs, and lists (notably LoPbN). In one of the failed AfD debates on its pages, there was near-consensus IMO that "eyeball search" is a major justification for LoPbN, which is IMO a major argument for duplicate entries analogous to rdrs. I try to avoid adjacent dupes (as ugly, wasteful of screen space and user attention, and occasionally confusing), e.g. with "portmanteau" entries such as we're discussing. And i'm happy to know that you're at ease with the last version there. Thanks.

_ _ BTW & FWIW, my estimate is that a third of bio articles have corresponding LoPbN-tree entries, so it's not close to fulfilling the complete-list aspiration. My own goal is to improve its usability enough to encourage others to use it, add to it, and upgrade its entries. I give myself most of the credit for

- overcoming a pattern of train-wrecks as to alphabetizing (besides the problems posed by numbered monarchs and hierarchs), which may have been the biggest barrier to serious work to get it nearly up to date (probably with bots that may at some point crawl the descendants of Category:People), and

- reducing the effort of manually searching for an entry or the location for adding a particular entry.

--Jerzy?t 07:23, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was about to do the move Jacky proposed, and i see there are cut and past moves in the history, calling for history merges. I take longer to do those, mainly bcz of preserving the separate history sequences; probalby will do in the next 24 hours.
--Jerzy?t 07:29, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

== Namaste == I've just been researching the ADSL services offered by Telkom and MWEB and it's ridiculous! It's truly not worth it. 192k line with a measly 1GB cap for R199 + R270 ADSL line rental + R440 once-off line installation! SA businesses are not happy with these costs. How's the country supposed to evolve when decent access to information costs an arm and 2 legs? SNO (part of the Tata group) will also be leasing lines from Telkom so we won't be seeing much of a price decrease. Zyxoas 06:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see you've been very busy trying to get Mopane worm to featured article status. What happened to my linguistic info? I followed a link to Sotho-Tswana - the horror! And what the fuck's up with Bantu? And why the wording in these articles that the people "were"/"used to" blah blah? The articles on Africa are horrendously bad, and conclusive proof that you don't need to be intelligent to be computer litterate. Anyway. About nice guys being gay - User:AssJerk is "gayer than Christmas!" Zyxoas 14:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There really is not much of a difference on my phone. Does the audio have to be .ogg? Most people have no idea what that is. How are clips played since most software can't play .ogg? I can understand why Wikipedia would discourage .mp3's (the mp3 audio algorithm is "patented" by the Franhaufer Institute). Do the audio clips work on you computer, and how? Okay, I'll stop bothering you now - those caterpillars won't write about themselves. Zyxoas 16:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So, what did you teach? What's up with the hungry caterpillar!? Should I be amused or bemused? It reminds of me how if you pass a triangle wave through a non-linear process you can make it lose harmonics (as opposed to a sine wave which would gain harmonics). Perhaps the foods were opposites of one another, maybe even each other's antiparticles? Some kind admin has been messing around with User:ZyXoas. Please take a look @ its history and fix it for me. Thank you. Zyxoas 10:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why didn't you tell me about this? I know you were a teacher due to a little link on you user page (Oars?). Below are a few notes about the article: === The Lemba people === Speak Tshivenda, not Chishona. Google for "Lemba lost black jews". === Mapungubwe === Why is this article a stub? It should be put in the World heritage sites in Africa category (sorry I don't know it's actual format). When Mapungubwe collapsed, some of its inhabitants went South - these are the ancestors of Vhavenda. Most of them, however went North to join the newly formed kingdom of Great Zimbabwe. There are lots of sources on the Internet stating this.

Jacky, Jacky. How's about next time you work on an African article you ask for my input? It will be well worth it, ja? Zyxoas 15:58, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Internet sources ("what? is he quoting Internet sources!?") state that they live "live among the Vhenda" but don't "mix" with them due to a Jewish law - see Numbers 36 ("and he's referring to the Bible!! It's the End of Days, I say!!!"). But, suspiciously, they look exactly like them. === Wat do a Jew luk laik, Tommy? === Borat (please follow that link - I beg you) in his famous song My country has a problem says that a jew has horns which you can grab him by and throw him down a well "so my country can be free". Now, we all know that race is a dumb fallacy but certain genetic continua exist between "races" - that's just a fancy way of saying "but dem no luk laik de Jews, mahn!" There are a lot more double chins in Europe than in Africa, for example. This, and skin tone, can be misinterpreted as evidence that race is a real biological phenomenon - it's simply proof that people who come from different places look different! Do Vhalemba look like people from Isra'el and their neighbours? No. Does their culture have spooky resemblances with that of "the Jews"? Yes. === Of Jews and Genes === If you're to believe the fairy tales in the Bible then all Jews are descendants of Abraham (obviously the people who wrote the Pentateuch had never heard of recessive genetic diseases amplified through incest) and, according to some geneticists, they have a certain distinctive mutation on the Y chromosome (the Y chromosome has only 1 active gene - the one that changes a fetuses ovaries into testicles). The rest of the chromsome can safely mutate without ill effect. Geneticists discovered that parts of the Y chromosome acquired mutations slower than other parts and they developed a way to trace male lineage (to trace female lineage you would look at the Mitochondrial DNA, which you inherit from your mother because sperms' mitochondria are concentrated in their tails which they lose during fertalisation). They allegedly found typical Jewish mutations in their Y chromosomes. Not being a geneticist, I'm really not sure what to make of this evidence. Studies in Mitochondrial DNA are used to work out the ages of "races" and suggest that the Khoisan are unevolved humans because they have so many mitochondrial mutations (it could simply be because they are a mixed bunch who have inherited mitochondria from all over the place - they are assuming that "races" are distinctive). I'm not entirely convinced. === So === I don't exactly believe this Vhalemba story, and even if it was true it would really mean nothing to me. I put very little importance on the past and the beliefs of the past. I find it very easy to eg break off relationships if I feel that they are not helping me be the person I constantly strive to be. I'm not kidding when I talk about constantly evolving on my talk page. Look @ the World today - what do you think would happen if it was incrementally better each day?.. Zyxoas 21:11, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's obvious from you latest responses on my talk page that you were not an English teacher. What articles did I point you to? Mitochondria?? And just as I'm not gay I also don't do drugs - I'm not kidding about alcohol on my user page. Okay, I'll stop abusing you now. I'm thinking of including some more technical info in Bantu_languages. I'll need help to have the info included. I think I'll talk to Mark first. Talk to you later. Zyxoas 11:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I love the "Concise" Oxford Dictionary of South African English. Mine is the legendary 2002 version. It gives no etymological info for mopane worm, suggesting that the name comes from the name of the tree and that the popular name of the tree comes from its binary species name. I know that smoking thing was supposed to be a joke - but I find it astoundingly unhumorous. === Lekgotla === I'm not entirely sure if the Setswana word is lekgotla and not kgotla - that's what Irene's for! I also don't know if the word is from a common Kintu root or is only part of the Southern African languages. The isiZulu equivalent is "inkundla". They all mean "court". The Kintu root would - I guess - be "linku&ja" where the & should be a lower case Greek gamma (don't have it on my phone). I'm wondering about the noun classes... === Languages and dialects === I do also believe somewhat that the distinction is sometimes political. Sesotho is a language simply because it's spoken by many people over a wide area but before the founding of the nation the language of Bamokoteli (Moshoeshoe's clan) would have been a dialect (of?) When talking about the distinction in Africa you should be careful not to spread old colonialist divide-and-conquer theories. Zyxoas 18:33, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've just browsed through some of your work. Nice one! I assume you live somewhere on the Hoo? SilkTork 20:43, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You deserve it. It looks like you've been busy in various areas of Wiki, but often people are not thanked enough for working on the quiet and neglected places. Good work. SilkTork 23:07, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, "inkundla" is not used in SA English. Friday was such a nice day: submitted 2 more assignments, met a cool girl, met her again and this time remembered to ask her for her numbers (duh!); and then I had to be a retard: Zyxoas (User talk:Zyxoas) 18:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC) I can't change my preferences on my phone, so I'll have to wait til I'm in front of a PC again to fix my signature. Until then: User:Zyxoas 18:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's truly amazing what you did with that article!! I have 1 minor little problemmie, however. The article says "John Mbiti is a African religious philosopher", in my understanding he is not at all an African philosopher but simply an author of works about African Philosophy/Religion. The guy's Christian!! Remember that ATR is also the philosophy. I might be on an Internet PC this Wednesday - have any complex questions which I could type up the answers to before then? User:Zyxoas 15:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_ _ Hi, Jacky; i knew your name was familiar, but couldn't remember why until i saw our previous discussion above. Small world.
_ _ You wrote at Talk:John Carroll (priest):

I finished the "What lks here" fixes late last night, and was still trying to think of whom to ask to fix the dab page; when Lo! you've done it without being asked. You are my complete hero! (Even if I'm sometimes not sure what you're on about!)

_ _ Well, things are complexly lk'd here, and one of the things you fixed was List of people by name: Carr#Carro - Carru. I monitor LoPbN fairly closely, and your chg there meant that there would be more John Carroll bios in the Dab than were in LoPbN. The consequence was my own Carroll work...bcz things are complexly lk'd here.
_ _ As to wanting the Dab fixed, i can't recall the history that John Carroll had, nor am i clear whether the relatively new ("do you want to delete the history?") message is a choice offered to non-admins. So i'm just assuming you got a clear msg that implied an admin was needed, tho i can't reconstruct why that should have been. In any case, read the first couple of 'graphs of User:Jerzy#Re Adminship Nomination, and you'll learn that i arguably have a special calling to do admin-needed moves for other editors. If i'm in doubt, i may send you to WP:RM, but you're welcome to make a pitch to me that the move you propose is non-controversial. (Same goes for merges, tho you may not be sure what i'm on about, re saving the histories -- which i'm likely to urge you to do yourself, in my style, on curmudgeonly days.)
_ _ As to not being sure what i'm on about, that may be a sign of good mental health on your part. If you find yourself grasping everything i say, you may want to get some therapy or at least take a Jerzy-break.
--Jerzy?t 06:40, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added some pedantic info there - tell all your friends about it (it's not going to incoperate itself into the article, you know!) Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 12:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC) (yes, fixed it)[reply]

I hope you don't mind me added sections to the bottom although "my" space is supposed to be at the top, do you? It's just that I now know what the "+" tab at the top means, and I can now following anchors to sections within an HTML (I think it was a Google bug - been seeing quite a lot of those lately and it's very frustrating...). Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 13:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps he is a Philosopher of Religion. My point was that calling him an African Religious Philosopher implied that he was a practitioner of African Philosophy and Religion - which he clearly is not... I followed the link you gave me and man! He seems to have good intentions but as I said he grossly exaggerates the concordances between ATR and Christianity. If ATR is so much like Christianity than why exclude Islam? eg There is no Jesus in ATR but there is (Isa) in Islam. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 08:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How "African" 'is' Mbiti? Not very, from my understanding. Shouldn't he be "Swiss"? I originally casually found the book in my local library but have failed to find it again since. Spooky. I'll try again soon. In the intro there's a map of Africa with the colonialist names of societies he mentions. From "Sutu" to "Ibo". So it's mostly sub-Saharan. I don't think he did much real "fieldwork" though... Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 15:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, I just think it's a bit misleading simply calling him "African" since it gives the wrong implications imo. Isn't "Afro-Swiss" a neologism? If eg you've been living in Kenya your whole life and the only thing you can say in Kiswahili is "Leta chai" (bring tea) then you're distinctly not African. Not that I'm saying that Mbiti is that bad but one can't simply declare themself African the same way you can declare being Christian or Communist or Black or... Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC) (maybe you should merge all these sections?)[reply]

Oh, Miss Rodgers, I thought I had my point quite clear. He simply doesn't seem very African to me. Whatever. Just put it in or... I'm just not convinced. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 21:09, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Christian religious philosopher" - okay. No true Scotsman only works if you had previously proven me wrong but I chose to ignore you because of my prejudices. So it obviously doesn't apply in this case. I'm not saying that Mbiti being Christian means he isn't African. I think Desmond Tutu is very African. Although Mbiti was born in E Africa this seems to have only been a "passing phase" in his life and most of whom he is came from being Swiss, right? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks for your work on cleaning up redundant categories at the commons. I have no problems with you deleting any cat created by me. Please feel free to go ahead. I also greatly apprecite you informing the creator of the cat (in this case me) of your plans. Happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 19:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I neglected to congratulate you on your WikiMedal. Could you do a small little favourtjie for me? Could you please tell me your e-mail address? I need to test if I can send e-mails properly using the phone (from a WWW service). Or you could create a new e-mail account and tell me the address. I've sent e-mails to myself but the results have been disappointing. I can receive e-mails properly so you can "e-mail this user" sometime. Perhaps I'll just figure out how to use POP3. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 07:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean Batswana are "freaked by fish"? There is a general taboo amongst Kintu speaking cultures against the eating of fish and aquatic totem animals (crocodiles, hippos...), although it tends to not be followed by most people nowadays. A derisive Sesotho word for English is "Sejatlhapi" ("language of the fish eaters"). Notice how all fish are given just 1 name. It might have something to do with the water people... What, are you asleep again?! Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 18:14, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've sent you a lot of e-mails although I think only 2 actually got through. Tell me the titles and what the body says (if you received it). How did you get that domain name? I tried registering there but was told that I wasn't special enough. How do some of you manage to give out accounts to other people? Not that I want one, but it would make my life a bit easier since they have a dedicated WAP service. I'll answer your new questions later today. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 07:58, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is "Rodzh", exactly? The totem article seems decent enough, though the info on Africans is rather bad (quick - what's wrong exactly with the article?) Forsooth, I haven't heard many people using that term when talking about Africans. Totems tend to be fearsome animals (rhino, lion, wild cat, elephant), so they are not eaten as a matter of course! === Sekgoa === (in Batswana, "Bahurutse" is repeatedly misspelled with 2 h's) "Sejatlhapi" is aderisive name, although I guess it's easier to pronounce than Setswana "Sekgoa" (velar aspirated affricative). I think the word comes from an extinct ideophone of whiteness, others being qwa (QwaQwa - another criminally bad article), qhwa (leqhwa - ice), hlwa (lehlwa - snow), gwa (see note on Sesotho), and twa (the current popular modern ideophone). Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 15:49, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bloody useless "free" e-mail services! Why the hell do they have 3 send buttons on the same page!? Could you put Bakoena, Bataung, and Batlokoa on VfD? I don't know what I was(n't) thinking when I created those idiotic stubs. Now they have sub-standard articles linking to them saying some of the stupidest things (have you seen Talk: QwaQwa yet?). I'll give you better reasons if you're interested. I'm so embarassed by them. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 18:20, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1. "Qhuaique" can't possibly be a real Khoisan word. DONE
2. Get rid of "alternatives" names to "Basotho". DONE
3. Get rid of the "pronunciation" of "Moshoeshoe".DONE
4. It's "Maloti", not "Maluti".DONE
5. There is no such word as "pilso".DONE
6. There was no "Zulu invasion in 1831". Maybe they mean the amaNgwana siege? Perhaps the attempted amaNdebele invasion?DONE

The are a few more problems with this article but I won't say unless you want me to because I'll start swearing. Click here: Amazulu. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 11:15, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, I meant Mark and Wizzy couldn't be bothered, although I fear I may have asked in the wrong way. Perhaps they're just scared of the info's depth? I think the fact that the linguistic "info" in African language articles can be understood by a layperson is a bad thing since it shows how littlle knowledge the contributors had. Have you seen the articles on Indo-European linguistic topics? There is not even 1 dedicated article on any topic in African linguistics. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 16:40, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing worse than the Wikipedia articles is getting my INF105-9 first tutorial letter today and discovering that the first assignment was due 3-4-2006 (with the absolute final extension date of 10-4-2006). I don't know if I should even bother telling the lecturers. Luckily I can still qualify for the Exams if I do at least assignement 2. If I made articles too difficult for the average editor to work on it wouldn't be a bad thing since it would increase the the signal-to-noise ratio. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:16, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jacky! Please, consider voting for the Bug 5283. Thanks! Yours, пан Бостон-Київський 16:58, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

86.134.32.14 has been vandalising my user page. Please block the geek Anwar saadat 19:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User:Prin (who uses an alias Man's Plans) has awarded himself fake barnstars. He is also repeatedly vandalising Ajith article. How to block this vandal? Anwar saadat 19:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for you contributions to the Paul Ehrenfest discussion; that is like a breath of fresh air :-) But thinking about this whole discussion about Ehrenfest's mental illness: This is far more common than many people realize. There seems to be a very fine line between "genius" and "madness", and there are many examples of that; not only scientists but also artists and politicians. Prime example is of course John Forbes Nash, cf the Hollywood movie, A Beautiful Mind. But there are many more examples of that: Alan Turing was depressed, Vincent van Gogh was psychotic, Winston Churchill seems to have had bipolar disorder, and on and on it goes. I still feel that a biography is not the proper place for a discussion of somebody's illnessess, be it physical or mental: just mention the fact, but that is it. But perhaps it would be worthwhile to create a separate article about "Famous people with mental illnesses". That way the subject can be discussed in a generic sense, perhaps bring up some specific examples without getting into the gory details of it. But I think such an article should be written by a psychiatrist, not by me. JdH 16:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I will go back and re-write that wretched last § - sorry to have kept you so long waiting for it. But as I was working on it, it seemed to me more and more correct that there should be some mention of his condition. My inadvertent deletion last night happened while I was looking for other egs of how WP handles illness and death, from Niels Henrik Abel to John Keats to Stephen Hawking. I was lectured by the last, and he continually cracks jokes about his condition - and has personally campaigned to improve the lot of disabled students greatly in Cambridge. This is the very opposite of "it's not nice, don't talk about it", and is very, very helpful for those of us on the receiving end.

There's certainly already a page of List of people believed to have been affected by bipolar disorder. It seems a good idea, although I've been steering clear of getting involved and have reservations about the general rush to belatedly apply the latest syndrome to famous names. Good luck with this if you go for it (altho' avoid the temptation to romanticise!). My main concern with PE is that, by being coy, we suggest that his illness is shameful. And the more I read about him, the more convinced I am that he was suffering some from of depression and also that he was a deeply generous, considerate man, who even in his depths cared more about other people than about himself. To me, that makes him a hero, and I feel we're failing to honour him enough if we ignore the matter.

Right, let me go back and redo that damn para. It was only short, after the fifth writing... :-) JackyR 16:27, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I haven't been feeling particularly manicly joyous lately so I think I'll be withdrawing slightly for a few days (no it's not your fault - I just have very mild clinical depression. I really should see a psychiatrist someday...). I won't be bothering you with more linguistics till I feel better ("therefore God exists!" I hear you exclaim gleefully). Talk to you later, then. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC) "Taking the piss" - what are you talking about?! Yeah, bye...[reply]

When I was in high school 3 of my teachers who had seen A beautiful mind came to me independently and told me that I should watch the movie and that the main character reminded them of me (I kid you not). I thought "they all think I'm a genius, what else is new!". When I saw it on TV a few weeks ago I thought "they all thought I was a loony tune, what else is new!", they were all so sincere (they were my favourite teachers - English, Mathematics, Computer Studies!), what were they trying to say?

Feeling much better... Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 19:26, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That British Dennis looks weird... My hair used to look like that 2 years ago before it turned into nutty dreads (ie non-styled). Don't comb your hair for a year and see what happens... I haven't really been resting completely - as can be seen by my talk page. Does every country have an Easter weekend!? What would you rather have been doing? (<- was that a real sentence!?) Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 20:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I felt like that in 2003 - one of the reasons why I had to leave Wits and take a (planned to be) year-long break. Okay, that's enough moaning for now! The Easter weekend here is 4 days long! If a holiday falls on a Sunday then the next Monday is also an un-holy-day. Not that it meant a break from anything for me... The Government is planning to get rid of some of the holidays (there are a bit too many). Maybe I won't complain about holidays anymore when (if) I start working. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 09:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I probably should have told you this 6 days ago but I'm now an administrator at the Sesotho Wikipedia (after all of 13 edits on the account Angela had created for me some 3 days earlier!). Now I have to try and translate the system messages ("welcome to Wikipedia", "you are not logged in", "search"...) into Sesotho, but I'm not very good with translations. I realised that it would probably be easier if I tried to translate the Simplified English messages since they are less idiomatic. I haven't forgotten about QwaQwa and the 3 clans and answer your questions later, but not today. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 06:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I can't access the messages on my phone. When I was on a PC on Friday I was overwhelmed at how many there were! Being the perpetual idiot I didn't save the page on disc so I could do them later @ home - but I'll do it next time. Hope you feel better soon. If I get a cold during winter I get a severe bronchospasm and can barely breath for some 4 days (another legacy from Wits), so I understand how unreasonable one's body can be sometime. I'll answer your points in the meanwhile. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 18:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_ _ I remember finding some Google hits that made me believe in the 20th-century JC astronomer, but i don't remember one way or the other whether they suggested the initial A; if you found none, i probably copied the senator's entry & forgot to remove the A from it when i converted the copy into the astronomer's entry. If you found the A is accurate but seldom used, i'm happy to defer to your observation or judgment on that.
_ _ According to its history, the rdr Rumer Godden came into existence when the article was moved (using the Move tool) to the topic's current title, Margaret Rumer Godden. While some move (rename) operations require admin intervention, this is precisely what is meant by those who say (somewhat confusingly) something like

an article can be moved back to a history-less rdr without deleting the rdr

This is sometimes stated in a way that invites believing that any article could be moved to, e.g., Rumer Godden, while in fact it (certainly used to be and probably still) is crucial that it is being moved back.
_ _ If you find you are for some reason unable to do the move, i'd be glad to do it for you, as would, i expect, many other admins, including those who frequent WP:RM. (FWIW, i agree with your reasoning for making the change.) There doesn't appear to be likelihood of substantial controversy, and the move you have in mind should be as reversible as the last one appears to be, so IMO there is no need for the 5-day discussion period that WP:RM involves.
--Jerzy•t 04:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, not exactly. I get better internet usability from Opera Mini but I can't use the Vodafone gateway so I have to pay a minimal fee for it. I've been editing the system messages on my phone. That was, until a certain australopithecus stupidus de-sysoped me then re-sysoped me less than 2 days later. So that's the reason why I've been neglecting some wiki-tasks (like explaining the problem with those 3 non-articles). Anyway, how are you doing? When are you going to archive your talk page? Just delete all my rants... Our Easter weekend is four days because the monday is Family Day (see what I mean about too many holidays?). 26 December is either the Day of Goodwill, Boxing Day, Dingane Day, or Day of the Vow depending on how much of a racist/nationalist/lunatic you are... Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 21:29, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jacky R, thanks for the fabby compliment (fabby pics!). Please, do upload them to the wikicommons. And or, even better, point me in the way to do it myself. I'm still rather new here at wiki and I got my fingers in too many pies before I figured how to do what. I've got more pics from the Okavango, Kalahari, and other great Botswana, and other Africa, and other ... locales. DDD DDD 13:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm doing something wrong, maybe I am. Help! So, I've uploaded a few more pics just now. Do I have to then go place them on the Okavango commons wiki or are they already there. I can't find them. The photos are... Image:Buffalo in the delta.jpg, Image:Children on the Okavango in Botswana.jpg, Image:Mokoro Polers in the Okavango.jpg. Your help would be appreciated. Cheers DDD DDD 02:08, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The weather hither has been horrible and I've been suffering from a 2 week flu (no bronchospasms, yet). Good to hear you've been out and about, and that you brother is doing something other than blowing up masjids on Friday in Eye-rack. I'm still not feeling entirely Okay mentally, though, but I think I should be able to cure myself (I just need to find out what the problem is first...). Seriously, this talk page is too long, and I feel a bit guilty for flooding it. I don't know when I'll feel up to tackling the issue with those 3 articles but I shall eventually, perhaps. Do y'all really get SEVEN BBC TV channels!? The SABC has been talking about 2 new (marginalised languages) channels for donkey's years. Anyway, good night then. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 20:38, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where is he now?

Dead, according to the line:

Extract from The Indian Express New Delhi Friday December 19, 2003 Page 9 “Last Salute to the lion of 1965” (Lt. Gen Joginder Singh Dhillon; 1914-2003, Obituary)

I'm inclined to send this to AfD and ask folks from the India portal to take a look. JackyR 04:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lt. Gen Joginder Singh Dhillon != Ranjit Lal Jetley... I think Dhillon is dead... - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 04:33, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved it directly to the main project page. The announcements box is good for longer-term stuff, but isn't watchlisted by as many people as the talk page; so more urgent requests are usually better placed there ;-) Kirill Lokshin 16:33, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey JakyR, hope this meets your distress call :). But ouch, more distractions away from Indian butterflies (the winged variieties, I mean). AshLin 17:22, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right. I was mostly referring to stinging criticism from AshLin on the article talk page. Any case, when I look at an article which does not make its subject's notability apparent, I am much more likely to nominate it for deletion when it's written as if Jetley commanded a platoon of inferior officers to do it, and plus "Ranjitlaljetley" is among the editors. This has a lot less to do with systemic bias than with the serious flaws that caused the majority of the people to vote Delete in that AfD. See you around. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 18:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am trying to save this Indian article from deletion. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matru Sewa Sangh. Come help rewrite it. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 14:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

`atta girl, Jacky... - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 17:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So much for my Wiki-break... :-/ But well caught! JackyR 17:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with the link to (I suppose it should be) your To do list? I'm still dying from avian flu (or is it The Plague?). Go to my user page and look where it says "In other languages", then imagine me swearing (shouldn't be too difficult). Could you perhaps see if you can track anyone down who'd be willing to correct that? I Tried User:JeLuF (see my talk page) but he ignored me after I gave him a linguistics lesson (hmm...). Also, could you please correct any errors you see on the Babel page? My comment on the talk page was thoroughly ignored (more linguistics, hmm...). If you can track down the villainous fiend who invented the "seSotho" spelling tell them I'd like to have a word... I'd like to see this grievous injustice corrected even if it's the last thing you do before I die (which shouldn't be too long now...). Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I had a rather bad fever today which I made worse by spending a very long time sleeping with nothing to drink so I was severely dehydrated. I hate the flu (no kidding!). On your user page, you have a section named "To do list" with a weird link to an article explaining interwiki (yes, even more weird than oars...). Do you really think JeLuf is ever going to change that text? I doubt he will. You really shouldn't have given him a link to that unflattering comment I made! Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 20:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone told you your talk page needs archiving...? Lgh has vandalised your user page, and he's been stalking you. I think we should just forget JeLuF and bother someone else. Please at least edit the Babel page? Do you think that "Epic chronicle of Afghans murdered by crazy Americanos" VfD will go your way? It seems quite close... Have you read Zoe's user talk!? There're a lot of pseudo-admins out there... What do you have (assumedly) growing in your garden? Was it also Mother's day there? Anyway - Zyx

nice to meet you, thanks for the exuberant greeting--Jackyd101 22:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think I'm getting better. No more shivering and sweating, so I should be okay in 2 days time. I'll explain the problem with those 3 clan articles now (well, I did promise you!). I'm back to using Google (I'm out of airtime!), so I won't bother logging in. I'm a bit disappointed in you. I thought by now you'd be like those Southerners who say "ARE YOU A NIGGER LOVING JEW, BOY!? I CAN SMELL A NIGGER LOVING JEW A MILE AWAY!! UPWIND!!!". Don't you recognise the divide-and-conquer theory?

My IP address changed and I found myself blocked! Perhaps the Heavens don't want me explaining this to you? I'll continue later (what's a person dying from TB doing up at 1 in the morning?). Could you move my last section down to the bottom past your doppelganger's message and delete this one (so I can continue by adding new sections)? I'll talk to you in a few hours. User:Zyxoas 23:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please just archive the whole thing; I can still continue my conversations. So now I'll have to tell you the truth (as far as I know it) about the clan hierarchy of Basotho? I wonder how long it'll be before I do that? A little peak into how complex this is: notice how Bakwena and Bataung are not just Southern Basotho clans. Have you heard of the Royal Bafokeng nation? There are also Bafokeng (mist people) clans under Batswana and Basotho (as a sub-clan of Bakwena)... Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 09:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, everything except Joziboy's latest section (Nguni). I would've done this myself but I now want to preserve that section (so I can quickly refer to it): Please create User talk:Zyxoas/Archives and User talk:Zyxoas/Archives/Archive1 then move the page there but copy the last section back. User:Zyxoas 14:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again :) I see Zyxoas has put up a message on my talk page that I think is for you. Well I assume it is. Hope you're well Joziboy 16 May 2006, 17:29 (UTC)

Yeah, looks like it. Can't be easy doing it from a phone. I'm really pleased you two have hooked up – at least you understand each other's linguistic work. Did I see a comment about exams? Good luck if those are still looming. So is the Edinburgh sojourn is nearly over? I never did ask whereabouts you lived: Marchmont is the trad place for students, of course. JackyR 17:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly yes, still in exams. But the final one is tomorrow! (hence the above-average amount of wikipediaring I've been doing today :) Distraction is the mother of invention) I'm only in third year though - so still a year to go before the horror of finding work. Sadly my boyfriend refused to live in marchmont so I live just off leith walk (I can hear the cringing!) - but I love visiting my mates there.. so villagy-feeling. How've you been? Finished your list of langs? :) Joziboy 16 May 2006, 18:21 (UTC)

The number of people I know who learned to juggle in exam time. Or ride unicycles. Or ... And hey, what's wrong with Leith Walk (or has it become trendy)? I lived in Gayfield Square for a bit, then was driven out by mad builders. But living opposite Valvona and Crolla can't be bad (except for the pocket)! JackyR 18:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hehe, no no... it definitely hasn't become trendy. But considering I lived on the Cowgate in first year, it's been only up :) I'm right across from Gayfield Square - on Marchmont Road. We need some mad builders round this end - half of a building collapsed today on the corner. Was police and cranes and everything when I walked into uni this morning! Joziboy 16 May 2006, 19:27 (UTC)

Marchmont Road? Eh? Do you mean Montgomery St? I've just seen the BBC report on the collapse – and it sounds like it's not a rare occurence. My landlady in Gayfield Sq, about 10 yrs ago, was taking advantage of a grant to householders who renovated New Town properties, which seems a sensible way to keep the older areas residential and in good nick. Cowgate, eh? Nice... You need to take vitamin D tablets if you live there! JackyR 20:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, sorry, I mean Montgomery Street :) You need a lot more than vitamin D tablets on the cowgate! Joziboy 16 May 2006, 20:57 (UTC)

How did that happen!? I clicked "+" on Jacky's talk page and started typing/keying/thumbing away in the Body but I didn't write anything in the Header. Then, I accidentaly clicked Save without filling in the Header, and instead of getting an error I was taken back to her talk page (with my text appended to the bottom). I think it was a Wikipedia fluke (notice how there are no wierd "/*.*/ integrating" edit comments. Anyway, I'm on a PC now and I shall be archive my talk page shortly.

About your garden; perhaps those unmarked plants are triffids? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 09:34, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I would if Wikipedia wasn't so slow. Ah well... Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 10:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Although I really don't think I deserve it (yet). I'm not in a position to do a fraction of the things I'd like to do, but that's not entirely my fault. I also feel guilty for being disruptive sometimes. If you insist, put it on my user page under "Awards" (I tried to think of a witty/ironical title but I failed, unbecomingly). Please archive my talk page? User:Zyxoas 18:49, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, thanks so much for the award :) I love it, goes so well with my talk page! How've you been doing? Joziboy 17 May 2006, 22:50 (UTC)

Thank you. I see you finally decided to do something about your signature! Hope you won't put contr. and email and HTML code as well ending up with a signature that uses up more code than your comments. I guess people just do that out of vanity. I'm still on my half-hearted indefinite break. I'll talk to you later. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 06:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the compliment. If you know about the subject could you look at wrought iron, where some one has added a long section on how it is made, which duplicates the article puddling furnace. It seems to me tha the material ought to appear only under the latter, with a brief summary and a cross-referecne under wrought iron. Peterkingiron 23:21, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comment. I thought I needed a second opinion before altering some thoughtful work by some one else (probably inexperienced). I will probably do the alteration myself one day. Peterkingiron 22:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ya, I wish it were 600 million too :) but those days are long, long gone. Nice hearing from you. Cheers. -Cribananda 02:21, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't live in India now, but I hear the big cities are simply overflowing with people. Even so-called 'mid-sized' cities in India have a few million denizens :-O

Btw, I see you have contributed a lot to Africa-related articles. I, for one, would love to see more FAs from Africa (I'm even planning a trip there). -Cribananda 18:25, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I did receive it; I should be replying in 2 hours time. Of course, you'll probably read it before you see this message, but I just wanted to let you know that I can see and write emails thanks to m.gmail.com. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 06:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not so long ago, the RGDP lists of English counties were reverted in 90-odd pages. But the second trial (this time its a table) seems to be working. I didn't get any complaints yet.

One more favour. Can you edit my talk page to the format that conforms to all? Anwar 18:45, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is anyone out there?.. How big is your talk page again? 80 megabytes? How about you make it your new-week-resolution to archive it? Speaking of resolutions - I should make it a point to remember which day of the week it is - I thought it was Wednesday! That's what I get for trying to learn quantum computing concepts by reading scientific papers and PhD theses! How are you? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 19:28, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, stalker jacky, Hinde ko gusto jung being-stalked feeling, diba? Kase, parang creepy dito. Who's stalking whom and Paket na? I think the world is getting fairly migratory, especially among those who have an interest in sustaining the world. I cannot really claim to spak Tagalog porperly but when I lived there (1993) I could rattle along enough to get by and make myself understood. I'm sorry I interjected small notes into your userpage as opposed to yr, talk page - I have just been told off by Zyxoas for doing so. Will try not to do it again. Gee, for someone with M.E you sure have a lot of energy for wiki-stuff. looking at your list I mean. At the mo' I'm really busy a with life-stuff - frustrating as I would like to spend more time creating stuff. Even wiki-stuff. Sigh. Tempus fuggit, as a friend used to say. Yrs, Lgh 07:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You might like to have a look at Qamata. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 10:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever............

Have a look at the talk page. Who's this Deuyfinster? -Zyxoas

Hi. Is there any policy on subpages (like Anwar_saadat/blah blah)? I mean I want to create a subpage on celebrities and collect votes, conduct quiz, update news and stuff like that. Are there any copyright criteria for image uploads in subpages? Anwar 09:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

{{Smile}}

--Bhadani 15:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't actually remove any references just thought they were more like external links and moved them down. I've also done some more housework to the article Standardised Dicken's and Dickens's to Dickens' (I can hear the apostrophe police coming to get me). I unfortunately was not available when it was first proposed for Featured Article but the only complaint seems to have been references; although this may have been just the most obvious. I'm none too keen on the limitations featuredom places on articles but a push towards polishing would be benificial. MeltBanana 15:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes in my edit summaries, a bold suffix is added automatically on saves - (top). Is it bad omen? Anwar 19:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jaky,

I've been trying to get hold of material regarding RL Jetley but to no avail. I physically need to move to Delhi before I possibly can get anything at all. The organisation he belongs to, many of the officers can't even tell me if they have an official history published or not. Guess its going to take much longer than I thought. BTW, the lost post in talk Jetley, whom were you addressing (curiously)? AshLin 14:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, we nearly had a breakthrough -- but not quite. An anon post, probably from the author, was added at the top of the "Where is he now?" section. I just hope they come back and solve some of the issues. It seems wrong for you to be putting in all this hard work while they all the leads one could ask for.

Fluttering on, I may invite my uncle (retired, keen photographer) to take up your challenge of African butterfly pics. Is there somewhere I can point him to explain what sort of lepidoptery pics Wiki is looking for, or could you summarise what he should be doing? (I can do the general "intro to WP" bit myself, if he needs it.) Happy flapping! JackyR | Talk 15:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jacky, thanks for the picture of the bougainvillea - it has stirred my little heartstrings. We had similar massive plants at our home in Hillside. They flowered virtually all year: we also had orange and white ones. As a boy I ran around barefoot most of the time and well do I remember the awful poisonous ache of standing on inch-long thorns from the same plant! And my mother digging them out of my foot with a large needle! I'm pretty sure the plant is a tahitian native and is named after the french explorer bougainville who helped the french affort ro colonise Tahiti - the first Westerner to sight it was Wallace and it was originally a British colony (and still should be!) but connivance by the RC missionaries and the Fr govt wrested control of the islands at some time Br was involved in some untimely war and the Br didn't bother to reclaim it. Why oh why when they spent all that effort on the b. Falklands i do not know. I have been to tahiti several times and love it: the language there retains several cute Anglicisms: inlcuding: himene (hymns) and painapo (pineapple!). Cook was famously commissioned to go there and record the transit of Venus - the bay at which he set up camp in Tahiti is now called Matavai bay and has grand swimming. I was once a professional artist for five years and was commissioned to paint (or rather copy) a portrait of Bougainville - I did him with a new background: a massive bougainvillea in flower and behind that a Tahitian bay! So your photo triggered a lot of good thoughts, and like WG Sebald allowed me to wander in the maze of associative memory for a while. Cheers, Lgh 06:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I thank you for your recent message, and regret the delay in responding. I think that the matter was resolved before I could do anything. Please remain in touch. --Bhadani 10:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The current History of Science Collaboration of the Month is Wikipedia:WikiProject History of Science/Collaboration of the Month/current.

I hope you get a chance to help. Keep rockin'--ragesoss 21:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jacky, I have a bit of trouble in creating the category page for suspected sockpuppets. Take a look at this. THere is something wrong. The Pusyamitra link appears twice in the category page. How to correct it? Sorry for the bother. Anwar 22:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed that the period between 1525-1725 is not covered in detail. Does that mean European painting went through a lull in that interval? I bring this to your notice incase you are interested in this subject. Anwar 20:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the "one syllable" explanation over at the books notability project. I just can't understand why people can't seem to grasp this obvious concept. I think you said it best and most comprehensibly by using an economy of words (following my dissertation on the subject).--Fuhghettaboutit 23:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, Jeff got the wrong end of the stick on that particular one - and then held on for grim death. *sigh* Done it often enough myself, tho... Btw, I'm putting together some book industry info which might help everyone get a grip on the numbers issue. Will put it up tomorrow, I hope. cheers, JackyR | Talk 00:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great! but note that based on the great amount of controversy that particular section was generating, I took Francis' suggestion and incorporated it into the "indicia" section and removed any mention of a specific number.--Fuhghettaboutit 00:44, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please feel free to evaluate the Libya article which has become a 'Featured Article Candidate' and write you support or opposition on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Hopefully Libya will become only the second African country to be featured on Wikipedia. Thanks --User:Jaw101ie 12:30, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jacky, sorry to bug you. I've just seen an article whose heading is misspelt - how do I change it? Yrs, Lgh 23:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - there was a conversation about Islam on WikiProject Countering systemic bias that seemed to stop in May, but without any resolution. I've made a suggestion there, and just thought I'd let you know. --Singkong2005 ^t_c 03:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for fixing that up: I rather suspected that's what I'd have to do - but it seemed rather a crude way of doing things - rather like killing a mouse with a shotgun. Glad to hear you're gardening: when you see some horrific bug or slug you can quote: 'a garden is a loathsome thing, God, What the - !' Lgh 23:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jacky, thanks for your help with the article about W. J. Coffee, I had intended to go back to work on this, I had copied it from a longer article about Coffee that I had written for a local newpaper's heritage column. However your editing is very good. I have one or two photos to add. --Chris Harris 22:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hi, thx for the welcome lol.

i think the bridges r open, well at least i see the trains using the rail link almost everyday. i don't know whether there is paying passengers on board but that is something to look into i suppose. could u give me some tips on what to do plz, im new. p.s how do u make this | on the keyboard?

Pratj 11:09, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(I never know where to respond, on your talk page, or mine, so I've replied in both places.) Hello, My source is The Peerage which itself cites;

Mosley, Charles (ed.) Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 1999), volume 1, page 1281.

Of course, it may be wrong. Do you have any clarification? Avalon 21:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've been crunched by the general General Tojo block, which temporarily answers the Q of which page to respond on (I can only edit my own till my IP is re-enabled).

I don't have any written sources for Alex (Alec? sorry mate, never could remember), otherwise I'd have used them. But I was at his 21st, which was definitely between Jan 96 and June 97 (cos of where I was living) - March 97 sounds v v plausible. I'm not in touch with him now so can't check. But looks like a typo somewhere along the way. JackyR | Talk 22:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hah. Well, The Peerage says Kay Douglas-Hamilton died after 1999 (and before 2003, by the "last edited" tag. But according to the BBC, she was alive and well in 2006. So perhaps that site should be used with caution. JackyR | Talk 02:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I keep seeing your name on African articles and I thought it was about time you had one of these. You can move it to a different place or whatever you want to do with it. Please keep up the good work. --Guinnog 01:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're very welcome; I think you have already earned it well and truly. Sorry if that was not apparent from the above. Thanks too for the heads-up on the category thing. --Guinnog 00:01, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes - thanks for moving the canal items. The reference to Mr Rayner, I think ,should remain though - some of the non-canal info was also culled from his article.--Cunningham 20:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi JackyR. You are absolutely right, I mixed up the two persons, thanks for telling me. I think it is ok now. Cheers. Valentinian ^(talk) 08:51, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. explains the issue. Note that Bridgeman Art Library is a UK institution, like the National Maritime Museum, so if Bridgeman images are not copyrighted in the US, then neither are NMM images. Gdr 20:02, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your objection. In Bridgeman v. Corel the defendants appropriated Bridgeman's images in much the same way as I appropriated the NMM's images. Gdr 21:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well the proverbial storm in the fur-lined cup. I am dismayed that the vanity article by Tardif was included in Wikipedia: it considerably weakens the value I once placed on Wikipedia. I would still like to see it deleted - it is self-written by a self-published minor author. Nothing noteable whatsoever. My entry to Victoriagirl was possibly rude - about Tardif's contribution - not about Tardif herself. BTW I qualify for an article on moi far more than she does, but I would not be so presumptuous as to do so. I have not needed the vanity press in order to get published. I repeat and aver that I have every right to say what I did and will not withdraw a thing. I will however apologise to Ms Tardiv, but I want my comments to stay. That's the price of fame for the well-known author. Personally I cannot see myself endeavouring to contribute as I once did, given that Wikipedia has degenerated into a sort of forum for self-promotion by non-notable people. I suggest that in future one should be able to cite critique of one's work in several repectable forums and that indeed one should not write articles about oneself! Lgh 03:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with the sentiments completely - but you were a bit rude. :-) (Not that I have a prob with that, but WP does...) The whole Wikipedia:notability (books) is an attempt to handle stuff like this: I shall probably put this eg forward there if no one else does first.

Sadly, WP has long been a forum for self-promotion by marginally notable people: I have a fine collection bookmarked, cos I was outraged when I discovered some of the two bit actors and the like. I'm happy to say many of them are now red links (without my involvement). But if those of us who are here to build an encyclopedia leave, it really will become just Vanity Hall. So don't let it get to you. Besides, the article might get AfD'd again - seems pretty marginal to me.

By the way, what is either of us doing up at this ludicrous time of night?! Or are you not in my time zone (GMT +1) right now? JackyR | Talk 04:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

the whole thing is, ludi-bloody-kriss, mon vieux. Both hours and matter in hand. I have apologised for tone but not content - I am upset that this article is still included and intend to keep it in the arena as it were - now that Ms Tardif is keeping it there herself. As for hours, I am at work (filthy word, wash me mouth out wi' soap and water, etc) and it is 2.30 pm in good old Oz. Cheers, Lgh 04:34, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A calm and deadly politeness, mon vieux... Now daylight here, so time to go to sleep... :-)

Thanks, I needed that ;/) Hlala kahle Lgh 12:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I must thank you for stepping into a rather messy, tiresome situation. Your comments were as generous as they were considered and fair. As there seems to be no resolution in sight, I've proposed to Lgh and Cherylktardif that we accept you kind offer to find an admin who prepared to give an opinion. Here's hoping they agree. On a related note, I see that Ms Tardif has edited your own writing, citing WP:NPA[1].Victoriagirl 17:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, that was Lgh she edited. It's all rope... I'm going to seek outside help anyway - as a useful exercise on the notability front, and informally on the peace and Wikilove front. Wikipedia:Notability (books) has been trying to evolve broadly agreed standards and decide whether WP:VANITY and WP:Reliable sources are in fact all we need. This case will make a great discussion point and at the same time (I hope) shed some useful light on these articles.

I wouldn't waste more time and energy on the conduct issue for now. Lgh has apologised for the way he expressed himself and there doesn't seem to be any requirement for you to delete people's comments, so it's not clear to me that further resolution is called for. An admin might think otherwise and have better suggestions - maybe just wait on those. I think it's very clear to any reader what has gone on (it was to me, coming in cold and reading everything from the top), so further posting on the same might just obfuscate.

OK, I'm being rather bossy here: obviously do as you think best. But I think you've behaved with genuine courtesy and consideration. I hope this user justifies the considerable time we have all (Ecophreek included) invested in her and becomes of value to WP. She might, you know :-) JackyR | Talk 22:13, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that was Lgh. Goodness, that was a silly mistake. My apologies... and my thanks, again, for your advice and calming voice. I truly think you've managed to lower the temperature. I'll keep my eyes on Wikipedia:Notability (books), and will be pleased to contribute (assuming I have anything of value to add).Victoriagirl 23:42, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both for your time on the Lgh matter. I appreciate it. I am sure we are all exhausted by it by now. I know I am. I do hope to be of benefit to Wiki in the future, since writing and editing are my professions. As for new standards, I agree. There should be a set standard on notables of ANY kind. As well, I think there should be someone to assist newbies in learning the ropes. Unfortunately, I was caught between not having the time (months) to wade through all of Wiki policy. Although my article was posted months ago, I have really only been active this past month or so. Live and learn. I am sure, as many other editors here have told me, you've all had to learn the hard way.(Cherylktardif 19:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC))[reply