User talk:Bathrobe

I noticed you were new, and wanted to share some links I thought useful:

• Wikipedia:Tutorial
• Wikipedia:Help desk
• M:Foundation issues
• Wikipedia:Policy Library

For more information click here. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~~~~.

(Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 14:28, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've added a response to the comments you left on my talk page. Kowloonese 18:43, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

For the record, I live in the US and I've never heard of doufu. We used to called it "bean curd" and the name changed to "tofu" when it became popular. I don't know how it is called in other English speaking countries. I support using pinyin over WG to do all Chinese transliteration. But I am neutral regarding similar treatment to existing English words. Kowloonese 19:57, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

Just out of interest, I think some residents of the US state of Hawai'i (often ethnic Chinese) do use the pronunciation /doufu/ in English, not the pseudo-WG (incorrect) pronunciation /tofu/ (i.e. voiced "t"). --Dpr 01:56, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The most important difference is whether you are talking about an English word or a Chinese object. When the name is already entered the English language as Tofu, it is just silly to argue how the original Chinese word is pronounced. Clarify the pronunciation in the corresponding Chinese article in the Chinese version of wikipedia. The English name has become part of the English language and should not be changed. Kowloonese 01:05, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

/tofu/ is not 'pseudo-WG'; it is from Japanese. For cultural/nationalistic reasons, some Chinese take exception to the fact that English uses a Japanese term for something that was originally Chinese. For such people, ousting the Japanese term and replacing it with Chinese is seen as 'setting things right'. Bathrobe 11:16, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

With regard to deleting the pronunciation for the Hebrew: I felt that it was the semantic content of the Hebrew name for the sea, rather than the pronunciation, which was important to the paragraph in question. For instance, the part which gives the name in the Bible "the Great Sea" in the Bible does not give the literal Greek or Aramaic for this.

I considered deleting the Hebrew characters as well, but for some reason chose not to. I think we should avoid devoting excessive space to any one language here unless the meaning of its name for the Mediterranean is interesting or relevant somehow, as there are too many countries and languages bordering on the Mediterranean to mention them all. Saforrest 16:17, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

Hey, welcome to Wikipedia! I'm a big fan of your website, especially the translations of "Mind the Gap" and other oddities. Thanks for putting up such a great resource. :P --Xiaopo ℑ 04:15, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I love it too. Hey bathrobe, maybe you can offer your website's content under GFDL so we can easily use it on Wikipedia? I could imagine a marvellous article about the days of the week... --Mkill 18:33, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The content of my article on days of the week is all from published sources. As long as it isn't reproduced absolutely verbatim, I'm happy for people to take information / conclusions from the site and use them elsewhere. The conclusion that 'xingqi' is not the original word for 'week' in Chinese has been reached by others on better evidence than I have. The main "slant" I've given it is criticism of modern Chinese sources (dictionaries, etc.) for twisting the word's pedigree to make it sound like something it is not.

(Actually, it was when I was researching the site that I first came to realise how deeply ideological history is in East Asia. It became clear that there are Chinese who want to prove that everything came from ancient China; there are Japanese who want to show that they are not simply an offshoot of Chinese culture, and that the Japanese day names came not from the Chinese, as the Chinese would claim, but almost direct from an Indian monk who got them from the West. In many ways, the "war" over history is still going on!) Bathrobe 01:38, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I just wanted to give you some helpful advice, or maybe just a reminder about a feature in Wikipedia known as an edit summary. The edit summary is filled out using the 200 word text field located right below the editing text box. It is strongly recommended that one get in the habit of filling out edit summaries for each edit, giving a general summary of why particular changes were made, as well as a very terse summary of what those changes were. Edit summaries are a way to defend your edits, especially if you're an anonymous user. Ambiguous edits made by anonymous users may often be mistaken for vandalism. Filling out the edit summary also gives the users who monitor those pages on watch lists or recent changes, an idea of what kind of activity has taken place. If these changes do not strongly affect the content of the article, mark the This is a minor edit check box below the edit summary field. For further help on using edit summaries, consult this guide. Thank you. — oo64eva (Alex) ^{(U | T | C)} @ 04:53, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

Bathrobe, I feel the Patua page is packed with information, and by now means in dire need of improvement. I'm probably too liberal in my use of the attention tag. Nonetheless, I usually "tag" pages that I admire! I just think the article could use more technical linguistic terminology and could stand to be copyedited for style and grammar. Parts are rather informal. In fact, if I have a chance, I will try my hand at this task myself. Thanks for the interest. Please let me know if you had any other questions. --Dpr 02:00, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Aloha, and thanks for your message. I added the POV check template as I wasn't sure of the POV being presented due to the lack of references. Today, I added the template for articles that lack sources. I have removed the POV check at your request. --Viriditas | Talk 21:28, 13 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Bathrobe,

I re-added the sentence on Hainan.. --Hottenot

I see your point. Maybe it would be better to start a new page, List of historical place names in Japanese or something. Still there is a precedent on the page; if you look at the entry for "Ethiopia" you see all the languages' words for "Abyssinia" as well as "Ethiopia". Just do a search in the page for the word "former" and you'll see a lot more. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 11:03, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's a great idea, and of course it should include Chinese (as many dialects as possible, at the very least Mandarin and Cantonese), Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese. List of country names in various languages is already incredibly long, and anything that encourages people to contribute elsewhere is good. The fact that you don't know Korean doesn't matter; it's a wiki, so someone else will come along and fill the Korean in. Now we just have to find a good brief, NPOV title for the page. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 12:30, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well of course you don't have to do it if you're busy! But I really don't know enough about East Asian languages to do it myself. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 13:05, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your comments on my page were: "I am also a little concerned at the Sinocentric nature of such an attempt. It can't be denied that Chinese characters were the cultural binding force of East Asia and that they lie behind a lot of current Vietnamese vocabulary. Since many people know Chinese and Japanese, putting in characters is no doubt a useful way of linking Vietnamese to a greater body of shared knowledge. But I feel there is a danger of cultural bias. Why put in the Chinese characters and not the Chu Nom, for instance? Because Chu Nom is a minor script? A dead script? Isn't that just belittling things that are uniquely Vietnamese in favour of aspects that are tied to 'great and ancient culture' of her neighbour?"

It's pleasant to see a Chinese speaker interested in Chinese etymology of Vietnamese terminology. I'm the opposite, I'm a Vietnamese speaker who appreciates knowledge of my fellow East-Asian Sinoworld members, as I am not pleased with my own people being erroneously called "Southeast Asians". Historically and culturally that term does not reflect the Vietnamese people, and is almost an insult to some of us, though not myself. You also sound like you are on my side of this so-called "argument". The Chu Nom system was actually written only for vernacular Vietnamese words that had no Chinese equivalent, but Chu Nom would have included Sino-Vietnamese words as well, virtually unaltered in wriiten form.

My Vietnamese name, for instance, is written Lê Anh-Huy, in vernacular Latin Vietnamese. But it would be "黎英辉" for both Chinese and Chu Nom. Take care. User:Le Anh-Huy

You are right, turning back the clock is not the answer, but it is easy to mislead people through "supressed information" (ie. overseas Vietnamese Catholics often deny any Sinosphere cultural roots in Vietnamese culture and overglorify French intrusions into vernacular Vietnamese trends...I noticed you said you're from Australia, I find the Vietnamese community living in your beautiful country most often comes from this misled "modernist" discourse to understanding their own ancestors' history), as I think you mentioned.

It is nice to finally meet the writer of www.cjvlang.com/ Thank you very much for enlightening me about my own roots! I had only "discovered" your amazing website while netsurfing earlier this year. I also noticed you are also a speaker of French and German, languages that I happen to need to refesh. - User:Le Anh-Huy

Hi, would you be able to add the CJK names for Korea? I understand there are two traditional ones: Chaoxian/Chosun/Chosen and Hanguo/Hanguk/Kankoku. Maybe Vietnamese has two names corresponding to the same characters too? Thanks! --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 07:15, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I knew North Korea tended to use the C-words and South Korea tended to use the H-words, but I didn't know South Koreans went so far as to be offended by the C-words. Maybe put in (now used for North Korea) and (now used for South Kora) or something. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 07:52, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I added the Korean names. I just copied them out of North Korea and South Korea. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 08:10, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vietnamese names for Korea:

Triều Tiên (Joseon)

Hàn Quốc (Hanguk)

Cao Ly (Goguryeo)

The two modern countries have been called by different names over time: Nam Hàn and Bắc Hàn (South and North Korea, respectively) were formerly used, as were Nam Triều Tiên and Bắc Triều Tiên, and sometimes collectively as Đại Hàn. Officially, DPRK is known as Cộng hòa Dân chủ Nhân dân Triều Tiên (shortened to Triều Tiên) and ROK is known as Đại Hàn Dân Quốc (shortened to Hàn Quốc).

By the way, I enjoyed reading your website, especially the section about Harry Potter names. I sent you some corrections for the Vietnamese version a while ago :-). Keep up the good work! DHN 10:07, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

In case you aren't aware, the Online Thiều Chửu Hán Việt dictionary [1] has a very useful lookup tool [2] that allows you to give it a string of Chinese characters and it will translate each character into its Hán-Việt form. DHN 10:10, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You received the corrections and gave me credit for it. Don't worry about it. DHN 04:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the 'treatise' on naming you wrote for the Yangtze River talk page; it's well-reasoned and does a good job of identifying your personal bias as such. Having bias is no problem, in my book—pretending not have bias is.

I'm also interested in your opinion about something that's been bothering me: the EN version of Wikipedia is for readers of English, but there's a great deal of ZH in articles about Chinese subjects. I find all the parentheses with ZH characters make it difficult to read, and I question their value to EN readers. Is it just there for the (relatively) tiny group of EN+ZH readers? Has an argument been made for or against it? I would think that it belongs on the page, but not in the text itself; the {{Chinese}} template seems like a good way to handle it, but I notice that on, for example, Grand Canal of China it's moving the other direction. Can you give me any insight?

Thanks, —Papayoung ☯ 19:08, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx. Feel flee to collect my Engrish. ;) Yoji Hajime

Thanks for fixing up Yasukuni Shrine, but please don't arbitrarily change which variety of English is used on the page (British vs. American) as this tends to lead to edit wars and articles with a mix of British and American spellings. No harm intended, I'm sure, but please be aware of this issue in the future. CES 13:13, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies for not looking closer ... the article is mostly in American English and in the edit history I noticed that you made several changes from American spellings to British spellings without noticing that the sections you edited were recently edited using British spellings. I will edit the article to make sure one system is used ... probably American, since that is the original and predominant usage in the article. Life would be much easier if we all used the same spelling system! CES 02:31, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your message. Please see my response on my talk page.-Jefu 04:06, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your message. I may have used provocative words, but let me explain what I have felt. To me, it seems Korean posters take almost obsessive interests and politicize historical facts in Japanese history, boasting and showing attitudes like "Japan owes what it is today to Korea (for what happed 1500years ago) ". See Talk:Korean-Japanese_disputes. It is true that Buddhism and Chinese culture was introduced from the Korean peninsula, but that is due to the geographcal location; only because Japan is more far from India and China. I believe these ideas due to Sinocentrism, which you might understand becuase of your contributions to Wikipedia. (It is true Japan also had, but it has disapeared by US occupation after WWII).

Under this scheme of international relations, only China had an Emperor or 'huangdi' (皇帝), who was the Son of Heaven; other countries only had Kings or 'wang' (王). (See Chinese sovereign). The Japanese use of the term Emperor or 'tennō' (天皇) for the ruler of Japan was a subversion of this principle. Significantly, the Koreans still refer to the Japanese Emperor as a King, conforming with the traditional Chinese usage.

Can you stand someone swearing about your parents? Whether it is Thai or Sweden I will totally leave it up to those people about talking about their monarch. Nobu Sho 21:23, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I started an article on Sino-Vietnamese. With your knowledge in Japanese, Chinese and Vietnamese, perhaps you'd be able to help do some factchecking and improve the article. Thanks! DHN 00:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I received your message about suggestion on starting an article about Korean scholar, Yi Sugwnag. Although I'm not personally an expect on subject of thinkers and intellectuals of East Asia, an article on Yi Su-Gwang would be a great idea indeed. There aren't much English information on his life and works though. I currently do not have the time to write the entire article, but I could start the basic structure for it, and have more editors participate in the article creation process. I don't have much time on my hands now and i'm trying to find more sources to start articles regarding RoK navy/air force and its armamaments, so it take a while for me to start a page on him. If you can contact other editors who are acquainted well with Korean history and get them to start articles regarding Eastern thinkers of Korea, I'll be glad to lend my hand. Deiaemeth 22:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My reason for removing the two categories was only that a temple isn't an example of political philosophy or philosophy of religion; Confucianism itself belongs in the former category, though not in the latter (it belongs in one of the religion categories).

I had a look at the Vietnamese article on Van Mieu; which photo did you want to use? I've contacted the photographer & uploader of one of them to ask if we can use it. Neither seems to be available on Commons. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:55, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The first photo, I believe, was taken by the uploader. It was uploaded when the Vietnamese encyclopedia was quite undeveloped (~300 articles a year ago - we now have 5300+ articles), so there wasn't a support structure for copyright notices. I believe that you can just save the picture to your computer, then upload it here to use it (just say where you got it from). I don't think the uploader (who hasn't been seen in almost a year) minds. DHN 03:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll follow DHN's advice. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My thought was that a building doesn't belong in a category concerning a philosophy/religion, but in a buildings category (that's why I added Category:Temples). Starting Category:Confucian temples might well be a good idea. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:46, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Click on the red link above, and edit the new page just like any article. You'll need to add parent categories: Category:Temples, definitely; probably Temples,Confucian too. The best thing to do is to look at similar categories and see how they do it. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:07, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying really hard to think of one to add and could not. I realised that pretty much all Sino-Korean words that have entered the English language are such neologisms, which is what led me to write that disclaimer-type statement I added. Chaebeol, for instance, was borrowed in hanja/kanji form from the Japanese zaibatsu, which is a Japanese neologism of the type I described. Even words like kimchi that seem to have an obscure Sino-Korean etymology (and are not ordinarily considered Sino-Korean words) derive ultimately from Korean neologisms (in this case, 沈菜 chimchae) that do not correspond to any words that were actually used in Chinese.

The list of English words of Korean origin is not very extensive in the first place, so it is quite probable that there are no widely used English words of Chinese origin that came via Korean. --Iceager 10:24, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's a difference between disagreeing with an argument, and simply not presenting that argument at all. If an argument is solid and has merit, than it should be able to withstand objections and criticism, and similarly, if an argument is completely without merit, then such should be easily spotted by a reader, should it not? That argument you quoted is one I'm familiar with. As you said, Sinocentrism is a complicated subject encompassing many historical concepts and different perspectives.

Certain accusations of sinocentrism merely state that the various Chinese states regarded (or continue to regard) themselves as superior to others, others that they exibited signs of sinocentrism through their interactions with the rest of Asia, sinocentrism as conquest, sinocentrism as cultural imperialism, sinocentrism displayed by individual people, etc. That argument seems to be an objection not to the tribue-vassal foreign relationship system, but to the specific sinocentric charge that those old Chinese states enforced cultural imperialism through its forced adoption by other cultures or maybe that China's sinocentrism was used as a motivation for conquest, and sinocentrism as a percieved sense of racial or cultural superiority. Particularly, this line: "In modern times, this can take the form of according China unwarranted significance or supremacy at the cost of other nations in East Asia or elsewhere in the world." But of course, if sinocentrism isn't clearly defined, then it can't be clearly objected to, can it?

I'll comment on my deleted line. This line, to me, seemed blatently NPOV:

While this possibly means that "chauvinism" was not everpresent, it also suggests that the Chinese, like many civilizations that consider themselves superior, were willing to accept people from other cultures as long as they conformed to metropolitan standards.

Instead of discussing whether or not the Chinese self-perception of superiority was true, it simply assumes it so, and then uses it to support the argument of sinocentrism.

The other line, I think the reason for deletion was rather obvious for its factual shortcomings. Were such an attitude about Manchu and Mongol conquests to actually hold true, all of Central Asia, Persia, Siberia, and Russia might well be regarded as part of the Chinese heartland. (which obviously isn't true) And Zhonghua Minzu is supposed to be a response and reversal of centuries of Han chauvanism, yet both somehow seem to get tied into sinocentrism.

Personally, I think there are too often confused attempts to conflate historical Chinese attitudes towards barbarians, various historical Chinese political concepts like the tribute-vassal relationships, experiences of the Europeans like McCartney, Han chauvaunism, Chinese military conquests, Zhonghua Minzu, anti-Japanese sentiment, Chinese nationalism, communism, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, Chinese names, characters, and language, etc from various stages and aspects of several thousand years of history and collectively lump them all together into, "Chinese are racist and bad, mkay?" and call it by the convenient catchall of Sinocentrism.

Personally, I would divide it up into sinocentrism by ancient imperial politics, by culture, by historical narrative, etc. and then put the specific counter arguments, if any, after each section. Currently, the article looks incredibly disjoint right now, explaining ancient imperial politics on one hand and then showing spaghetti as a sign of modern cultural imperialism on the other. --Yuje 08:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do want to eventually reorganize the article. It'll just come down to finding the free weekend to spend on doing it. I'm somewhat bothered by the article's lack of sources, so I'm hunting some down as well as digging through some of the Confucian books for the philosophical justifications of the ancient tribute-vassal system. --Yuje 02:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I've been assigned to be the mediator for the Japanese Macrons case. Discussion will be carried out on the Talk page of the case request. I will have some preliminary questions up soon, I am looking forward to working with everyone to get this resolved. Thank you, pschemp | talk 16:43, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're still not using edit summaries, which makes life just a little more difficult for people going through their Watchlists. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I suggested the merge because basically the Sino-Korean article is very short and both it and the article for hanja suggests that they are the same thing. I'll give an explanation in the talk page for the Sino-Korean article. --Hong Qi Gong 21:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While you're essentially right, I'd like to make a couple points. Tokyo was originally spelled Tokio, and then eventually Tokyo, and at about the same time people began trying to spell it Tōkyō and Toukyou. Accurate romanization of languages that don't use roman characters is a rather new phenomenon. But all that's beside the point.

I realize that it's quite an uphill battle. I've put the quote on my user page to remind me of that. I don't mind the concept of macrons at all; I believe Japanese has the right to be represented accurately as much as any other language. I just can't see past the technicalities of inputting macrons, and using them in Wikipedia. For the record, I kind of disagree with the use of "orthoghraphical" accents and macrons in the titles of articles for other languages as well (Vietnamese, Pinyin), although I would never challenge a French or Spanish spelling. That's one of the reasons I wanted to call this meditation as well, the Wikipedia infrastructure has no means of controlling large issues like this, and it should not be left to a vote between Japanified editors. As long as someone that has some real feel for the way Wikifoundation works makes the final decision, I won't make any more fuss about it.  freshgavinΓΛĿЌ  23:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm brand new to Wiki, and am not even sure if this is the correct place or way to respond to your comment on my user page as follows:

"I saw your note on the simplification of Chinese characters (many being pre-20th century). I agree that the current statement is rather broad brush. If you want a more sophisticated explanation, why not Be Bold! (a principle of Wikipedia) and make the changes yourself?

Bathrobe 01:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)"

This is only my 2nd day on Wiki (other than browsing contents as a reference). Feel free to delete this from your User talk page if this is inappropriate. Should I have emailed instead? Is my formatting appropriate? Oh, I'm such a clueless newbee right now! Pls feel free to email me to straighten me out -- mailonekms-wpost AT yahoo DOT com. First, thank you for your comment. I'm an amateur scholar specializing in the origins of the Chinese language, and do plan to make extensive improvements where needed. It's just that I'm still learning the ropes (e.g., formatting, signing properly etc.) and am a bit shy about screwing up. :) Second, I've read your changes on Chang Jiang vs. Yangtze, and fully support your position; I've added comments on that talk page. Cheers! Dragonbones 04:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I wasn't aware that some countries had switched to horizontal writing altogether. In that case, I accept that I should have tried to compromise rather than simply reverting. Apologies for a too-hasty action.

I've edited the article again to try a wording that states that horizontal writing is "increasingly common", which I think is a more accurate summary of the situation than either extreme. If you think this is still misleading, then by all means please adjust it again.

— Haeleth Talk 13:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If the trend in Chinese is clear enough that even "increasingly common" seems too weak to describe it, then naturally I won't object if you want to strengthen the wording further - my edit is purely a suggestion and a stopgap measure to ensure that the text wasn't totally unacceptable to either of us. As you may have gathered, my knowledge is largely restricted to Japanese, so I don't claim to have a good feel for how well any given phrasing will describe the situation in other languages.

My main concern is to avoid anything that looks like a prediction that horizontal writing is certain to take over. It does seem to me that the status of vertical writing in Japan is still fairly secure; I've never seen a book other than a bilingual dictionary use anything else. But I'm willing to consider the possibility that I'm erring on the side of conservatism.

Perhaps it could be modified to state that horizontal writing is "increasingly common, and now [almost] ubiquitous in some [countries/contexts/areas]"? Would something along those lines be an improvement?

(Incidentally, I believe some versions of Internet Explorer support vertical text layout, which does make it seem rather strange that it's not commonly used. Possibly some link to the general bias of web users in favour of the young and more radical?)

— Haeleth Talk 13:20, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see vertical writing in Taiwan disappearing in Taiwan anytime soon; I'm not sure the statement that "most" newspapers have switched to horizontal is correct either. Be sure not to carelessly lump Taiwan in with China/Macau/HK in such broad, sweeping statements... Dragonbones 15:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the words are going to be changed to make them fit Eurasia. First certain political bodies would have to change their name and identity. Europe is acknowledged as a political body in Europe. Asia is acknowledged as a political body in SAARC and ASEAN. Second labeling would be hard for some regions. Far Western Eurasia and Far Eastern Eurasia might be acceptable but the regions in the middle of Eurasia would be hard to label. I don't think the change will happen in Eurasia and I hope you don't change wiki around to confuse users to make it fit the Eurasia concept. -- 18:00 March 30 2006User:Dark Tichondrias

• He really doesn't get it, does he? --Lukobe 04:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I'm doing a survey of Wikipedia editors as part of a class research project. It's quick, anonymous, and the data will be made available to the Wikipedia community later this month. Would you like to take part? More info here. Thanks! Nonplus 00:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, are you interested in writing on your website about how pronouns used in Harry Potter are rendered in Vietnamese? Whereas in the original English, Rowling used "you" and "I", the Vietnamese translator did not have that luxury and had to choose the proper Vietnamese term of reference appropriate for the relationship between the speaker and the addressee as well as the speaker's attitude toward the addressee. I'm not sure if the Chinese and Japanese translators had the same problem because those languages have direct terms for "you" and "I". DHN 23:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I wasn't aware of that phrase. They have the exact sentiment! DHN 02:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, we have a proposed solution now and need everyone's input as to whether its acceptable so the rfm can be closed. Please add your comment to bottom of the page. Thank you, pschemp | talk 17:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's gonna be a long uphill battle. I'm reading through the Japanese 百人斬り競争 wiki article and translating it into English, but there's a lot of BS involved with this issue on the Japanese side as well. Someone there went through and changed the references to victims from "people" to "Chinese soldiers", which of course, it doesn't say in the source articles. Damn ideologues.

BTW, technically you aren't supposed to delete things that people post on your talk page, but you can feel free to delete this message if you think it's taking up space. Bueller 007 11:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, and thanks for asking.

The reason I recommended the merger between the pages is that (from what I saw), there was a correlation between the riots and the holiday. Considering that the page on Muslim hajj contains information on similar situations (there is also the fork article Incidents during the Hajj), and I am looking for incidents that have occurred in Christianity and other religions as well, I thought the two articles should be intertwined or merged.

If the 2006 riots have nothing to do with holi (which, again, from my POV, it seemed that they did), then I'll be fine with a cancellation of a merger. I'm not out to offend anyone at all; I merely thought that it was a valid point, enough so that I'm looking for similar instances in other religions (aside from hajj incidents) so that I don't appear hypocritical or anti-Hindu.

Hope this helps.--み使い Mitsukai 12:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed you commented at User talk:Bhadani over what happened to your message at User talk:Saito Hajime. I did a little investigating, and found out that his talk page had been deleted per his own request. As a result, your message was removed. BTW, even before it was removed, the user himself was continuously deleting all the messages he was recieving, including one by you, one by User:Stephen B Streater, and a welcome message by User:Gflores.--May the Force be with you! Shreshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) 14:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I made a comment on FBWOarticle's page that I wanted him to go back to the Nanjing page because it was "me vs. the Chinese nationalists". So I think that guy was referring to that post, not yours.

Thanks for chipping in though.  :-) Bueller 007 09:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I think, a month earlier, you contacted me and several other Korean editors about writing an article on Yi Su-gwang. Well, I finally got to it today and wrote a little stub on him. I will try to incorporate more information and correct grammar/structure to bring the article upto wiki standards. Just thought you might want to know. Cheers and happy editing, Deiaemeth 10:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. The term Silhak came into being in the late 17th - 18th century. This links explains what Silhak is (very briefly) [3]. It basically de-emphasized Confucianism and argued adopting more modern schools of thought in statecraft. Silhak attacked neo-confucianism. They also argued for modern approach to economy, sciences, and philosophies, arguing that Yangban-class of Korea, who practiced confucianism and was very conservative, was deletrious to the interest of the Korean people and the state. Their reasoning was that the Yangban-class did not participate in any economic activity - all they did was sit around and study confucianist school of thought. Silhak practicionners argued for supply-side economics and revival of economy. [4] Yi Su-Gwang is considered early Silhakja, but he didn't attack confucianism outright. Deiaemeth 04:21, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great. I try to maintain some basic civility on talkpages and get accused of being POV-pushing/biased/Chinese nationalist. It's a good thing I chose not to check in and had a nice Easter weekend.

When you're pounced on on the slightest, most neutral issue like basic civility, first being accused of having some ulterior motive and then receiving a niggardly refutation, I think I had plenty of reasons to be pissed.

Lastly, what I did is in no way "restricted" to admins. Like any user can remove vandalism or give {{test}} warnings for vandals, any user can issue warnings for incivility. -- Миборовский ^{U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai!} 22:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I will shortly try to understand the problem, and shall come back to you. --Bhadani 11:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I could not figure it out. Please see your edit history, and try to locate that particular edit. --Bhadani 11:29, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hiya, you contributed to the talk page of Nation building. I've just flagged up what I think are a bunch of problems with the article and would welcome your input. Cheers Vizjim 15:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Did you put this on the Yasukuni-discussion site?

"There's an interesting article in the journal "Japan Echo", December 2004, on Yasukuni. It discusses the rationale for the founding of the shrine and traditional views that make the shrine meaningful to some."

If that is the case, do you have a .pdf copy or a good url or something?

Thanks man =D

でわまた

--Yanemiro 05:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Bathrobe.. thanks for the reply. My point, which you seem to agree with, in the redirect page was that in English, "Chang Jiang" is not well-known. Indisputably, it is the more-common (i.e. official, as it were) name of the river in China. Zai jian! Izaakb 14:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I really have no idea of your problem, sometimes I also encountered the same ones,but after for a while,maybe somedays, I found I can access these pages.Maybe you can consult the technicians of wikipedia.Ksyrie

Ni Hao. Thanks for the explanation on my talk page regarding that. It would be nice if the article explained this explicitly, though (it might, but I found it too confusing and not to the point). A short while ago I tried learning Hanzi but eventually stopped; I guess I could always start again. Enjoy your day. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen)

very sorry for that... I meant to use that (to avoid the "oo/ou" discrepancy), but I was then in a haste and forgot to do so, sorry :( Cheers.--K.C. Tang 09:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Guess I need to brush up on my Wiki policies. I guess I felt that since i wasn't making major changes I wasn't stepping on anyone's toes. As for the talk page thing I was treating it like a message system, so I was deleting a read message. I've restored my talk page. I feel silly now, and I've felt I've disrespected the wiki community. I hope you understand I meant no harm.kojaxs 04:26, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, the Manual of Style is probably what you want regarding avoiding 1st/2nd person. Encyclopediae have almost never, historically, been written using 1st/2nd person, and scholarly works similarly tend to avoid it - if in some circumstances professors use it in lectures, we can probably attribute that to differences between spoken and written english -- the same professor would probably not do that in written works. The important part is encyclopedic tradition and a consistent style. Take care. --Improv 18:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bathrobe,

I reverted only because the edit was by a banned user. WP:BAN states that "any edits made in defiance of a ban may be reverted to enforce the ban, regardless of the merits of the edits themselves". Feel free to revert me if you like, I have no opinion on the matter. Cheers, Khoikhoi 21:22, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bathrobe: This error is due to a caching server or proxy server between you and the website you are trying to access. IT is entirely possibly the URL for the Yangtze entry is being targeted, there is little way to figure out otherwise. POSIX is a hypothetical Unix standard which is used for a lot of programming by the Linux community (notice the ---ix ---ux endings, all related operating systems). It is my understanding that the Linux OS is widely in use by PRC Izaakb 16:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, I don't really remember removing information on Lokeśvara in Theravada. When did this occur? There seems to be info in the article on it currently.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 14:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I had forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me. However, the sources you've cited don't seem very compelling in indicating that Lokeśvara is recognised in Theravada Buddhism. There are certainly some residual traces of this cult in southeast Asia. Your sources point to occasional appearances by this figure in old architecture and art. It seems implausible that the name Lokeśvara is used in Theravada Buddhism, since this is Sanskrit. The Pali equivalent would be *Lokessara, I think, but there are no google hits at all for this word. The intro currently mentions Lokeśvara as an alternate name, and that seems like a good solution to me.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 03:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Bathrobe for those corrections. I only got your note under my name today. I wonder if you could fix the Kada no Azumamaro heading so that when one types a search for him in google or yahoo, that name comes up? At the moment, only Kamo no Mabuchi appears, at least when I do this. Sorry to bother you, but the technical side is something I am learning only slowly, preferring at least in this empirical approaches over mere theory.Nishidani 13:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is this site maintained by you? It's very interesting. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 04:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's great work. I particularly found interesting the part about how to identify a Chinese translation as an indirect one from English. You've collected an impressive number of Chinese translations. But the best one I know of is a French-Chinese bilingual one published in Hong Kong, are you aware of that? Cheers.--K.C. Tang 06:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

you can see that edition here (just scroll down). That publisher is the only publisher in Hong Kong who publish French things. That edition is the only French-Chinese bilingual edition I know of (my, I've see a number of English-Chinese editions!), so it's worthwhile to get one. You should be able to get a copy when you go to the Tsim Sha Tsui branch of this bookshop. Good luck. Leave me a message if you need any help. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 06:18, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

have sent you email, as our conversation's become personal (and a bit geek!).--K.C. Tang 08:50, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll do just that. Bradford44 14:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sry i forgot to add a comment but yes Toyota is in fact is larger then General Motors!{Sparrowman980}

Appreciate you fixing the automobile.

At my user talk page you have added the following:

Double Fifth query

[edit]

At Duanwu Festival you've added a 'citation needed' tag at the statement that this is also known as the Double Fifth.

I am quite mystified as to why you added this notice.

• The person who put this name obviously has some grounds for giving this name -- perhaps they simply knew something that you didn't. But you personally haven't heard of it -- so you simply add a citation needed tag! Had you done a quick Google, you would have found a number of websites that refer to the festival as the Double Fifth! Your addition of a 'citation needed' tag does nothing but add clutter to the article. (You haven't even bothered to query the name on the talk page first!)

• Had you checked, you would have noticed that Double Fifth is the name of the disambiguation article (see Double Fifth! So not only is your edit frivolous, it is disruptive and poorly executed within the context. Isn't it kind of ridiculous that the name of the disambuation article is queried in the article on the Duanwu Festival itself?

The next time you haven't heard of something, before you put in a 'citation needed' tag, try making a few comments on the talk page and have a look around. Your lack of knowledge shouldn't be regarded as a good reason for adding this kind of cruft to articles. User:Bathrobe

I am quite mystified as to why you added this notice.

• The person who put the citation needed tag has no connection with me. The person who added the tag was user:Alanmak[5]. I don't see any similarity between the two, so I don't know why you thought it's me, maybe by a mistake -- so you simply add an offensive notice in my page! Had you done, a double-check you would have found it had nothing to do with me, what I had done is adding the link to the Chinese version of the page! [6]Your addition of the notice does nothing but adds clutter to my user talk and offends me. (You haven't even bothered to see it twice first!)
• Your tone wasn't very friendly either. If you had used a more appropriate tone, it would have been better. So not only is your edit frivolous, it is disruptive and poorly executed. Isn't it kind of ridiculous to be scolded by a stranger without a reason?

The next time you have found something "ridiculous", before you put in notice in the user talk page, try double-checking. Your lack of discreetness and rudeness shouldn't be regarded as a good reason for adding this kind of cruft to articles.loganfong 06:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Bathrobe

Please feel free to add Gunyah to the Humpy page. I created that page, but would like to see as many regional names as possible, since many so-called Aboriginal words are Eora, or east-coast words, being the first point of contact and don't reflect the variation across the continent.

You can also do a redirect from Gunyah, or even change the name to Australian Aboriginal Shelter, with a redirect from all the commonly known names. Do whatever you want.

Cheers DRyan 11:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, It is quite hard to mend an article, than to start out of scratch. I also apologize for the typoes (I am a poor typer indeed)

I reverted your edit, because I took into account that the mention of Japanese atrocities was missing. I prematurely assumed that you were distorting information. Apologize for my ignorance and misunderstanding.

Odst 01:04, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shit, I tried to undo my mess, but It won't work, for some reason.

just to make it more coherent, but I messed it up. I changed it up a bit, but There's more cleaning to do. please help me, as I am trying to correct my mistake.Odst 01:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I cleaned it back up. It was so confusing...

Perhaps I should have notified you, but I guess I just assumed that you would have the article on your watch list and so see the change. I have no opinion about either translation—I do not read Chinese. I simply felt that the edit was not in keeping with the Chinese section of the text, and I could not make a decision to change that text myself, not knowing anything about Chinese, and so reverted with a summary that it doesn't match. Feel free to edit the full text to what you feel is correct. Lexicon (talk) 14:58, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have to deduce that message was destinated to someone else since I haven't edited the article in quite a long time. Leaving you a message in case you would like to send it to the proper user. Good wiking, --Mariano(t/c) 00:13, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I do call 4 months a long time. But I wouldn't say 'repeated' for 'twice'. My reverts weren't trying to comfirm what was written, but reverted some unconfirmed information (e.i. a comparison between mosquitoes' habits). Perhaps a good clean up of the article should be proposed. --Mariano(t/c) 20:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My deepest excuses. I sincerelly thought you made a mistake with your first message because I haven't been editing the Wikipedia in months, and didn't take the time to carefully read neither your message nor the blog for my second answer. I'll get into fixing the article. You might consider doing it yourself if a similar situation is to happen again. Thanks for taking the time. --Mariano(t/c) 14:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know, the editors on that page can be very stubborn. John Smith's 11:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By the way I listed an RfC on the matter. If you could leave some comments it might help resolve things. Talk:Nanking Massacre#Request for Comment. John Smith's 17:23, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your recent contributions to one of Wikipedia's Korea-related articles. Given the interest you've expressed by your edits, have you considered joining WikiProject Korea? It's a group dedicated to improving the overall quality of all Korea-related articles. If you would like to join, simply add your name to the list of participants.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask at the project talk page. We look forward to working with you in the future! Wikimachine 01:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are you still interested in working on a cheongsam / qipao merge? It has received some support at Talk:Cheongsam. — AjaxSmack 18:29, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

May I invite you to join this discussion? Seektruthfromfacts 20:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please be civil, and do not bite newcomers, not even vandals: diff. Thank you. · AndonicO ^Talk 17:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You could try redirecting vandals to Uncyclopedia, like I do, although I usually refer them to the proper page for vandalism, or, in the case of page blanking, here. -- Altiris Helios Exeunt 07:25, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Remember that some vandals sometimes become good editors; Arjun was an excellent admin, and happened to be a former vandal. · AndonicO ^Talk 13:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes, Arjun...we will never forget. -- Altiris Helios Exeunt 13:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wait...he reverted his retirement! -- Altiris Helios Exeunt 13:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you say "A" you need say "B". Subdivision consists of subdivisions, isn't it? If you decide to change subdivision to subdivisions you need be consequent - the rest of the aimag articles has to be changed. Either we change all 21 aimag articles or we are back with subdivision.

Are you form UB? Can I ask you for assistance in Mongolia related topics? Bogomolov.PL 11:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Potter 7 is to be released under the title Harry Potter và bảo bối tử thần (bảo bối = 寶貝, tử thần = 死神) in Vietnamese[7]. Earlier, in an interview, Ly Lan tentatively translated it as Harry Potter và tử thần tích (tích = 迹?). DHN 01:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Its publishing date is October 27. For Books 6 and 7, the publisher stopped printing installments not because it wanted to but because the author's agent requested them to. DHN 08:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The first four chapters had been serialized on Tuoi Tre's website. I assume that they will add more as time goes by. DHN 17:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Although I haven't seen the hard copy version, I'm pretty sure what they have online is a serialized version. Tuoi Tre is the largest newspaper in Vietnam in terms of circulation, and each chapter has the disclaimer: "Tác giả JK Rowling, Lý Lan dịch, bản quyền tiếng Việt của Nhà xuất bản Trẻ, phát hành ngày 27-10". Furthermore, according to this announcement 2 months ago, the publisher said they would post excerpts on their website and through various other media. DHN 02:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"chiến binh" in chapter 5 is derived from 戰兵. DHN (talk) 02:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DHN, thanks! I'm all set. I've just taken delivery (this very morning) of the Vietnamese version of Harry Potter 7. And I brought back my Viet-Han dictionary a fortnight ago. So I can enter the Vietnamese chapter titles, etc., and check the characters they are derived from. Bathrobe (talk) 02:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! I look forward to seeing the site updated. Also, I think "hồi niệm" is derived from 回念 and not 壞念. DHN (talk) 02:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree. It was something of a guess and I think it was wrong. I will be able to fix up the errors as I update the page.

Bathrobe (talk) 03:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed some typos in the chapter names: Chapter 6 should be "Con ma xó mặc đồ ngủ" and Chapter 8 should be "Đám cưới". Great job on updating the page; I've been wondering what she translated the "Elder Wand" and "Diadem" into. DHN (talk) 07:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh great! That's what happens when you do a rushed update during the lunch hour!

Bathrobe (talk) 09:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Chapter 15: Yêu tinh rửa hận, "rửa hận" literally means "to wash a grudge" (hận = 恨), so the Vietnamese title actually means "Goblin seeking revenge", or "Goblin avenged". In Chapter 29: Vòng nguyệt quế đã mất, "Vòng nguyệt quế" is the Vietnamese term for the laurel wreath. BTW, I'm wondering how "Undesirable Number 1" is translated. DHN (talk) 22:27, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bathrobe,

You are absolutely right. I don't know why I typed Hunan instead of Jiangsu. Thanks. Croquant 15:49, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

--nat ^{Alo! Salut! Sunt eu, un haiduc?!?!} 01:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was brought to my attention that on this page you asserted that the Vietnamese expression for "death anniversary" is "ngày giỗ or "bữc giỗ". You probably meant "bữa giỗ", since bữc is meaningless (and unpronounceable) in Vietnamese. DHN (talk) 04:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Thank you for all your contributions. I discovered www.baabarpedia.mn just for your information. Gantuya eng (talk) 05:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My Vietnamese isn't that great either. The dictionary I have access to doesn't have an entry for "cốt thiết", but I'm guessing that it's from the Chinese 骨切, which I guess literally means "close to the bone". I'm guessing it would mean "essential". I am not sure what "tinh thể" means besides "crystal", but I think it came from 晶體. I don't think there's any significance in the "các..., cái..., cái" construct. "Cái đó" just means "that [thing]". You can try asking at the Vietnamese Wikipedia. DHN (talk) 05:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In this page, you said that "áo" (袄/襖) is a very general term for an article of clothing. That's not entirely true. It only applies to items of clothing that cover at least from the neck down (i.e. the upper body). Trousers, for instance, would never be called áo. Those that cover from the waist down are called "quần" (from 裙). The general terms for clothing are..."áo quần"/"quần áo". DHN 02:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Bathrobe
I wanted to talk to you.
You have apologized for your insulting comments. I thank you for that.
However I see a larger picture - I request that you look at WP:OWN, specifically the comment "Are you qualified to edit this article?".
sincerely,
duoo-arph Keerllston 01:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

hello again
I wanted you to know that I have appreciated comments from you a lot - Soviet Russia in particular - and we have agreed on many occasions
I wanted you to know that I linked to and requested that you look at WP:OWN not as an accusation of ownership precisely - I don't believe you quite understood that comment - I was referring to the comments in the tone of "you don't know much about china, you shouldn't edit"
I think it would do you good to re-evaluate both "Be Bold" and "Ignore all rules" - they are cornerstones of wikipedia - and not much growth could exist without them
I would welcome you back to China given that you reflect on the suggestions in this comment - I would welcome you with open arms - I have greatly appreciated past comments from you
--Keerllston 10:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: Readin, I feel rather upset with Kirlston. I know that my reaction to him wasn't very civil, but I can't accept the direction he is pushing the article in. I know that China may be a rather difficult article, but when the upshot of all our discussions is that Kirlston wants to have Japan incorporated in the "China" article (with the consumption of pork in southern Japan as one of the supporting factoids), I don't think there is much I can do. He really is going over the top, and insulting his knowledge of China only seems to have made him more unstoppable.

No need to apologize to me.

I don't think Kirlston is unstoppable. It's not like you're having an edit war in the actual article (like some of the people discussing etymology seem to be). Hopefully you guys can work things out. For now I'm not actually concerned about whether Japan gets into the article or not. I just want us to settle on a definition. I appreciate your concerns about the nationalistic views of some of the editors, but I think we have to put in the effort, and there seems to be a lot of effort going into it. Readin (talk) 04:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the briefness of this reply and for not diving into the debate on Talk:China. As Enochlau mentioned, I am currently quite busy in real life.

First, just to defuse the conflict a bit, I think Keerblah's reference to "southern japan" was a reference to Ryukyu/Okinawa, whose history, culture and (as mentioned) cuisine is in many ways much more closely related to China than Japan is related to China. It is understandable that some would (on one interpretation of the historical evidence) argue that Ryukyu should be regarded as part of the "Chinese civilisation". Personally, I think that Ryukyu is on the same footing as Korea, Vietnam and other former vassals of Imperial China - they can be regarded as heavily influenced by Chinese culture, perhaps part of the historical Sinosphere, but they shouldn't be regarded as "China" in any usual sense of the word.

Secondly, I think you present a voice of reason and knowledge on this talk page, and I urge you to stay on. While the other two users have good intentions, I fear that their relative inexperience may result in some undesirable results if established editors are not participating —Preceding unsigned comment added by PalaceGuard008 (talk • contribs) 11:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, this is going to sound completely random, but I see from the previous few comments that we share a common bond stemming from a certain user attempting to insinuate himself into topics he knows nothing about. I feel your pain, as it were. He has been mucking around recently with the FAC process, including my very first FAC which was recently promoted despite his baseless (and long winded) objections. It got to the point where I just couldn't take anymore, so I gave him the cold shoulder. The more you try to reason with him, the more unreasonable he becomes. I glanced at the China talk page, having been concerned about this individual's contributions to the rest of Wikipedia, and was not too surprised that it's all too similar of a situation. And always, always with the misinterpretation of Wikipedia guidelines and policies, especially in regards to his "understanding" of incivility (if it hurts his feelings, it's uncivil apparently). Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. Perhaps if this behavior continues, we'll have a Mediation on our hands. This is seriously not good for the project. Hang in there, María (habla conmigo) 04:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that your HP site doesn't have a page/section that deals with how "Parseltongue" is translated into the three languages. DHN (talk) 01:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Bathrobe,
On the occasion of the 29th of December I present you these roses.
Wish you health and happiness.
Gantuya eng (talk) 01:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. The article is in a mess when everyone write a little bit without making the whole thing consistent. For example, the first sentence says cheongsam is a women dress. I know for sure Chinese men wore cheongsam for hundreds of years in China. Feel free to refactor the article. Kowloonese (talk) 07:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The confusion is how people read the word "Cheongsam", is it "THE" English word that entered the English vocabulary decades ago that carried a specific meaning determined back then? Or is it just the transliteration of the chinese word 長衫 which refers to a bigger category of the similar garments?

Another good example of the same kind is DimSum. In the US English vocabulary, the "English word" DimSum means the Hong Kong style DimSum that you get in a tea house. But DimSum is also a transliteration of the Chinese word 點心 (snacks) which may cover 100X more varieties of food than the Hong Kong DimSum. In the Dimsum article, these two different usages were not distinguished. One sentence refers to the English word "dimsum", another sentence refers to Chinese word "dimsum" in the same paragraph. It is just a mess. I have given up on that kind of clean up long ago when every author has his own intepretation of the title word.

I have similar frustration when the "Chop Suey" article I wrote was turned into "Chinese American Cuisine". The Chinese American Cuisine I first encountered 30 years ago was quite different from what I can buy today in Chinese restaurant in US Chinatown. I still want an encylopedia article on the historical background of "Chop Suey" but when modern Chinese American cuisine is mixed in the same article, the article is not readable anymore.

Kowloonese (talk) 23:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You and I are on the same page. I bet Blind Man Walking probably has not lived in the US or Britain and is not aware that a big collection of Chinese loan words has entered the English vocabulary over 100 years ago when the British colonized Hong Kong. It is plainly wrong to assume Cheongsam = 長衫 and DimSum = 點心 etc. because these words have become English words and their meaning took a related but independent route of etymology. Good luck in convincing these people because they only know one side of the story, the Chinese side. You probably should show them this conversation. I am Chinese and have lived in Hong Kong in the first 40% of my life, and in the US for the balance, so I know exactly how and why they think that way because I thought like them before.

Kowloonese (talk) 05:01, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Renminbi yuan, or rather, 人民币元, is the name used in official contexts, used, for example, in Chinese laws and regulations, and by Chinese media when talking about exchange rates or revaluations. Examles from googling "Renminbi Yuan": from the Chinese embassy to the US, a journal article, a Zhejiang provincical law, Websters online dictionary, a badly translated official English version of a national law. (One thing that annoys me is the "Chinglish" tendency to confuse informal contractions with formal usage - e.g. "EXE" instead of "executable file", "Forex" instead of "foreign exchange", etc.) --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My motive is very simple. I don't dispute the fact, but if you look at the talk page, you'll see the article quick-failed the GA Review and the reviewer specifically said the exact statement needed referencing. Now, you might disagree with the reviewer, but I was just trying to push it to GA so the reviewer's concerns need to be addressed. Certainly I have no POV to push here. Thank you for your time. Josuechan (talk) 05:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To Bathrobe - I think that I myself nominated this article on GAC last year. Well, I believe that you should provide sources for "pataca" is locally known as the 葡幣. Your reasons for not providing sources are not sufficient. Please refer to WP:L, it states: The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that readers should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. I know you lived in Macao for some time but it doesn't mean that your own experience is verifiable. Please refer to WP:OR, it states: Citing sources and avoiding original research are inextricably linked: to demonstrate that you are not presenting original research, you must cite reliable sources that provide information directly related to the topic of the article, and that directly support the information as it is presented. Coloane (talk) 21:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Even though I'm a bundle of nerves over it, thanks so much. :) María (habla conmigo) 13:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You have previously participated in a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics/Style. If you care, please go here to register your opinion on two proposals for currency naming guidelines. Thanks. — AjaxSmack 03:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just stirring up the pot a bit here. — AjaxSmack 21:09, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bathrobe, noticed your comments in WP:V. I'm working in a totally unrelated area of 'wiki' but can understand your frustration. I'm not clear though as to whether you think WP content needs greater verifiability or more relaxed. You seem to be saying more verifiability but you're having trouble having your edits accepted? Just curious as to what is the actual cause of frustration. Slofstra (talk) 00:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I think the book you are looking for is Uradyn Bulag, Nationalism and Hybridity in Mongolia, Oxford 1998. Yaan (talk) 12:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good call on Vietnamese cúc as "chrysanthemum." I think you're absolutely right; it derives from 菊. Badagnani (talk) 01:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just checked with my Vietnamese teacher and he never heard of "pine" among those four plants. I'd like to figure out why the original editor put pine, as opposed to "orchid." Badagnani (talk) 02:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is the edit. Badagnani (talk) 02:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're right; it was a confusion between the "three friends of the cold" and the "four junzi flowers."

Can you help create an article for the four junzi flowers, as in the Chinese version: [8]? Badagnani (talk) 02:55, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the ume isn't a plum; it's closer to the apricot. Badagnani (talk) 01:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I altered the part about the other countries. You're right, Song is probably too early for the other countries to have used them. Are you sure Korea, Japan, and Vietnam all uses them? I think they do. Badagnani (talk) 02:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the painting, it's a good one, but too bad there weren't any free ones at Flickr. Badagnani (talk) 02:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mai_m%C6%A1 . It says that Prunus armeniaca is called "mơ châu Âu" ("European plum") in Vietnamese. Badagnani (talk) 02:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so, because mơ seems to signify Prunus. Badagnani (talk) 02:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see--the "plum" type are called mận and the "ume"/"apricot" type are called mơ. The genus Prunus is called mận mơ. Makes sense. Badagnani (talk) 02:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This says that Wu Zhen is credited as having been the first to promote the painting of all four plants in a single painting. Is it true? If so, it should be noted for our readers. Badagnani (talk) 17:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, that wouldn't be the first contradiction one has encountered in the study of East Asian historiography of culture... One could simply say that "Variously, X and Y have both been credited as popularizing the painting of all four of these subjects in a single ink-and-brush painting or other artwork." Badagnani (talk) 01:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, so the "three friends" came before the concept of the "four gentlemen"? That's good and important information. Badagnani (talk) 01:49, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Mustard seed garden" sounds strange for 芥子园--I wonder why it was called that. Badagnani (talk) 02:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. Hanja are traditional chinese characters and i haven't removed it. It is still there.

The word hani does not exist at all. As in if you said hani to some Korean he/she would have ZERO idea what you were saying.

The phenomenon does exist but by nowhere near the extent the Chinese claim. There are words of sino origin, more specifically words of religious and scientific origin. However it is patently false to say sino-Korean words are of sino origin. Sino-Korean words are simply words that can be written in Hanja.

Sino-Korean words are spoken in Korean, have been in the Korean spoken language since Koreans arrived. Traditional Chinese was the only written language 2000 years ago ergo the use of hanja(traditional chinese). The context I'm describing is similiar to the Vietnamese language, which is spoken in Vietnamese but written with French.

This is what i mean by "Korean spoken language written using Chinese characters". Languages are usually spoken first before a writing system is developed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Subvertmsm (talk • contribs) 03:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kanji and Hanja are not used for the same purposes. Hanja represents Korean phonetics, Kanji is Japanese.

I think you mean the opposite. Kanji and what not represent much more than just a series of characters. The entire Japanese writing system and much of its vocabulary is Chinese. In Korean, hanja represents nothing other than the assigned sounds and have almost no correlation to Chinese.

For example, if you ask a Chinese person to try to learn Japanese, he/she will find an enormous amount of similarities. Ask him to learn Korean, with or without Hanja, it will be difficult and Hanja will not help at all.

The quote, seems really clear to me, although I see your ambiguity.

Hanja is a bit abstract, there is no meaning or logic behind it because the Chinese language has no alphabet while Korean does. Modern Chinese, when you are learning it, is learned by memorization. It doesn't follow like a language with an alphabet.

Most hanja can be written for proper nouns or words that dont exist. If the Chinese invented the computer, we wouldn't have a Korean word for it. We'd make up a word, and then there would be hanja attached to it to clarify it.Subvertmsm (talk) 05:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you are interested, a continuation of a discussion you participated in continues at Talk:Chinese_wén#Article_split. — AjaxSmack 04:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• You previously participated in discussions involving the title of Chinese wén. If you are interested, there is a follow-up move proposal at Talk:Chinese wén. — AjaxSmack 05:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've had my fill of your attitude. If you can't resist taking cheap pot shots at editors you disagree with, please stop editing Wikipedia. One more insult and I'll take matters further.
Dove1950 (talk) 22:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to thank you (albeit considerably after the fact) for the translation you did to bring the Zelda article over to the English Wikipedia. I've been a fan for quite some time, and it's nice to know that they have a place here to call home. (Ditto your work on Ivan Morris.) 99.137.211.50 (talk) 05:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Follow-up: Zelda fans on Wikipedia do exist! http://stats.grok.se/en/200802/zelda%20(band) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.243.126.242 (talk) 18:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AjaxSmack, I noticed your comment at Ulaanbaatar:

None of this is controversial but it doesn't really matter anyway. Nice was never a part of Italy but the Italian name is listed prominently. Ditto with Nancy, Listing a foreign language name does not denote a territorial claim or signify any type of chauvinism, it's just part of the knowledge that makes up an encyclopedia.

In fact, I have tried listing the Mongolian name of Irkutsk, Эрхүү, at that article but ran into opposition from an American-Russian editor. I eventually backed down and deleted the name from the head of the article (and was unable to find a place in the article where it could be mentioned naturally), but I still feel as you do about the possiblility of listing foreign names -- listing them doesn't signify a territorial claim or chauvinism, just part of the knowledge that makes up an encyclopedia. Since Irkutsk was originally founded in Mongolian-speaking territory and is named after a river (the Irkut or Эрхүү) that ran in such territory, I can't see the harm in adding the name. At any rate, I wondered what you might think about a case like this.

Bathrobe (talk) 06:01, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree as long as the names have some relevance to the topic.

Check out WP:NCGN: "Relevant foreign language names...used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place are permitted" and "Alternatively, all alternative names can be moved to and explained in a "Names" or "Etymology" section immediately following the lead"

I've created several names sections (e.g., İzmir, Vladivostok, Ashgabat) where the list started getting out of hand. This helps keeps the nationalist edit warring down and makes the intro line a lot cleaner looking.

The case of Irkutsk is close. It was once part of the Mongol Empire and that would warrant the inclusion of the Classical Mongolian name. I think it shoud be there because the Buryat name also happens to be Эрхүү. Buryat is certianly relevant and it would be easy to include something like "(Buryat and [Эрхүү Erhüü] Error: {{Lang-xx}}: text has italic markup (help))." I'll try to put that in myself and see what happens. If that gets resistance, a names section might work.

In cases where the name has no ethnic or historical connection, an entry can be made at Names of Asian cities in different languages. — AjaxSmack 07:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for adding that. I think it's definitely better having the Buryat name there. I was able to confirm that Эрхүү was the Buryat name of the river, but had no information on the name of the city.

Bathrobe (talk) 07:26, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I got it from Buryat Wikipedia (the second sentence of bxr:Буряад-монгол) and confirmed it at KNAB (with this search result), a good source for such things since it's referenced. — AjaxSmack 07:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bathrobe, thanks for your contribs to Taiwanese aborigines. There is a long, long, long, long discussion on the talk page (or in the archives) about "raw" and "cooked". Please take the time to read through those before engaging in WP:OR. Thanks Ling.Nut (talk) 02:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bathrobe,

your concerns are understandable, but for this topic we are dealing with the experience of peoples and must take extra care in how we present information. This has been archived and after a very long debate, including the input from many of the source book authors and anthropologists. It was determined that the terms "raw" and "cooked" reach beyond simple literal usage and demonstrate the actual pejorative nature of the relationship between Han and non-Han in 17th Century Taiwan. Other examples may include "Raw/Tamed". Please see the source material for more info before you make changes. Thanks!

Maowang (talk) 06:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, they are different. If you can read Chinese, please see zh:洛河. Thank you. --Neo-Jay (talk) 03:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Bathrobe, Thanks for the correction. It was not me who made that change though. (I wonder how that happened) I know practically nothing about Japanese architecture and would not presume to engage in those issues. But all the best with your work.Brosi (talk) 21:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not too angry at you, but honestly was rather shocked at "before-and-after of you". Of course, you're not changed, just because I don't know anything about you. However, I wondered as to why you replaced the plural Koreans with the singular form, which looks like you seems to directly point your finger at me, only Korean at those discussions. Your mention of Chinese is also aiming at Palace that makes me very uncomfortable as well. Why do people make fuss about the titles? A name holds a strong power and cultural influence as well as nationalism, that's wnhy Japanese fiercely objects Liancourt Rocks at Dokdo contrary to their claim at Senkaku Islands. That is a double standard. Endroit even tried framed me right after I reverted his non-consensus edit. I'm also very sick of those kind of ill-faith gaming here.

How do you know "the Westerners" here are really "Westerners"? As I don't know of you, you don't know me and we don't know who really the participants are at the discussion. I've seen so many 'fake' people with fake nationality or ethnicity, so I can't totally believe what people talk about themselves here. Their edit contribution partially shows who they're and what intention they come to here.

Why did I stop participating in the ongoing discussion? I'm not a native speaker, so can't keep up with your and others' speed and there are many amusing and "safe" articles hailing toward me. I will go to the 'sakura' talk page soon but I think you should leave an official request at WP:RM to draw people's attention more. --Appletrees (talk) 04:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't generally prefer Latin binominal names because I have to double-check on whether my spelling is correct. That is tiresome for me, non-English speaker very ignorant of science. However, in my experience, the Asian pear is being called nashi, Korean pear, or even incorrectly 'Chinese pear' respectively where I went/go for grocery shopping to Japanese, Korean, and Chinese market(s). The fruit of "Prunus mume" is even harder to find in Asian markets that the pear except Japanese foods like umeboshi. In this case, I can't support any of the names and if everyone agree to throw hideous binominal names, I would go with "Japanese plum" and "apricot". However, I don't know regarding 'mei'. The case is very similar to Zen. --Appletrees (talk) 04:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Please note, that when editing a page, say page [[zxcvbnm]]:

[[Category:qwerty]] puts page zxcvbnm in the category qwerty .

[[:Category:qwerty]] is a link to the category qwerty .

Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't take LL too seriously -- I'm pretty sure she thought you'd find her bluntness as funny as you thought she'd find your flippantness, for what it's worth. And you're welcome to join, and then it will be affiliated with you ;)

Cheers, and happy wiki'ing. - Revolving Bugbear 21:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think this edit seems correct. Badagnani (talk) 04:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I summarized the list of countries into a single statement because there were about 8 or 9 foreign countries that were affected by the tremors. I thought either mention all of them or not at all, rather than just mention two or three (Pakistan and few places). The earthquake details section below also had a list of all the places.--Balthazarduju (talk) 07:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd just like you to know that I'll be stepping down from talk:Han Chinese, seeing that I actually don't have as much knowledge on the subject. (^^;) You seem to be well-read on the subject, and I enjoyed arguing intellectually with you. I hope that you will be successful in making the article more effective.

Ciao!

余^(姚七) 21:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted you on Bardo Thodol- without getting into politics over Tibet's status with regards to government and history, the text in question was composed in Tibetan and relates specifically to the funerary practices of Tibet, and is not used in China generally. Calling it a Chinese funerary text would be a bit misleading, as it creates the impression that it's written in Chinese, or is generally popular in China. --Clay Collier (talk)