Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Royalty and Nobility

Was patrolling this article and couldn't really verify much in this outside of references to books that I cannot access. One of the family, Peter Daniell, has written a book on the family history, but that might not be independent. Was wondering if the WikiProject Royalty and Nobility had any view on it? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see that @AirshipJungleman29 has nominated it for deletion. thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Umberto I of Italy#Requested move 9 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Francis, Duke of Guise#Requested move 14 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂[𝚃𝙰𝙻𝙺] 22:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Rose Hanbury#Requested move 15 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 16:16, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mentions of descendants born after the article subject's death in lede

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On James Hamilton, 3rd Duke of Abercorn, I removed the note that he was the great-grandfather of Diana, Princess of Wales on the grounds that he died several years before she was born, citing the various removals from the lede of the article of Prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark that he was the paternal grandfather of Charles III, arguing that they never met, and thus had no impact on each other's lives. It was suggested that consensus be gained for this. I posted here instead of article talk page in hopes of getting more discussion. 2601:249:9301:D570:F1A2:5799:7476:D3A3 (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that unless the connection has a special significance (such as an inheritance that went direct from person to great-grandson in the case of Louis XIV), such remote connections are not important enough to feature in the lead. DrKay (talk) 15:49, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed (and I think this is obvious). --JBL (talk) 19:05, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Family tree of Chinese monarchs (ancient)#Requested move 3 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 05:47, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Old/new calendar

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I noticed there are some discrepancies with using old/new calendar for the Russian royalty/nobility (example Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich of Russia, where the birth/death date in the infobox were mixed: birth date > OLD calendar and death date > NEW calendar, it's now correct). What is the standard for this? I've been looking for a while but couldn't find any rule, if anyone could be nice to redirect me, I'd be happy to re-edit. Thanks Daphoenyx (talk) 00:01, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Pandukabhaya of Anuradhapura#Requested move 22 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 21:59, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Original research dispute at Talk:Greek royal family#Original research

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Someone is trying to prevent the removal of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH materials in Greek royal family and Prince Christian of Hanover without addressing the main concerns. They are trying to use sources that do not even mention the article subjects in question to make original conclusions about them. Editors are invited to contribute to the discussion at Talk:Greek royal family#Original research. StellarHalo (talk) 19:24, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed it would be excellent to have more voices in this discussion about the best way to avoid WP:FRINGE content concerning people who are not royalty (despite being descendants of people who were), while also respecting other core policies. --JBL (talk) 19:26, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Unassessed biography (royalty) articles

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Would it be posible to rename this category to include (royalty and nobility) seeing as it belongs to this WikiProject? As it is, the names of these articles only include british peers and royalty. EmilySarah99 (talk) 08:35, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any Holy Roman / Frederick Barbarossa fans around?

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I've tagged a bunch of statements in Frederick Barbarossa's lead as either not being supported in/contradicting the body, not being verified in the body, or being absolutely ridiculous (one sentence says he was "almost superhuman" .......). Does anyone have the resources to be able to address the article's issues? See also Talk:Frederick Barbarossa#Problems with the lead. Ed [talk] [OMT] 06:02, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Haakon Magnusson of Norway#Requested move 26 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans 07:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Franz Joseph I of Austria#Requested move 29 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 00:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

COIN discussion about royalty source being added

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There is a COIN discussion that I just opened for a source that's being added to royalty and nobility articles. You can view the discussion here. Perspectives appreciated. CPR certified and forgetting it all (talk) 16:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Beatrice of Bavaria#Requested move 1 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans 08:02, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Eric XI of Sweden#Requested move 31 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans 11:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson#Requested move 5 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. reading beans 01:21, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Legendary rulers of Wales comments

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There is an ongoing discussion about a draft which will be published under Draft talk:List of legendary rulers of Wales. This is similar to lists to the fellow Celtic nations of Ireland, Scotland, Cornwall, and similar to the listing of the Kings of Britain, again similar to other legendary king lists from other nations. Could we get some consensus on the matter, or if anyone has experience on the topic, could you please join the talk ? Cltjames (talk) 21:00, 07 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are these Americans "princes" or "princesses"?

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I would appreciate input from more editors into these edits concerning various Americans with the surname Radziwill:

The question of whether any of these people wrote their name with the ł instead of a standard English l is also maybe interesting. (It is not necessary to point out that my edit summaries are not entirely civil, nor that I have now reverted twice; I'm not planning on directly engaging further.) Pinging Unfriendnow (the other involved editor). Thanks. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 21:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Radziwiłs, to quote their article arę "a Polish princely family of Lithuanian origin", though I'm not sure what the current legal status of their title is, as Poland is a republic. 98.228.137.44 (talk) 03:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That article is almost entirely concerned with people and events of the 16th through 18th centuries (maybe a bit earlier). Our article Stanisław_Albrecht_Radziwiłł#Title (one of the ones Unfriendnow has been trying to pipe to add the word “Prince” instead of linking the article directly) says this: According to Debrett's, although known as Prince Radziwiłł in Britain, on becoming a British subject and in keeping with standard practice, Radziwiłł strictly needed permission from Queen Elizabeth II to use his princely title. The Radziwiłł family held the title Prince of the Holy Roman Empire since the early 16th century. However, noble titles were abolished in Poland and Austria. The other people are the American woman he was married to from 1959 to 1974, their son (b Switzerland 1959), and his wife (b USA 1963, m 1994). 100.36.106.199 (talk) 11:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would really appreciate additional input on the appropriateness of the edits in my OP. 100.36.106.199 (talk) 12:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Constance, Queen of Sicily#Requested move 1 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 14:05, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Constance of Aragon#Requested move 5 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:30, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment for Angevin kings of England

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Angevin kings of England has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Borsoka (talk) 02:33, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mashiding Lomandong

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Could someone from this WikiProject take a look at Mashiding Lomandong and assess it per WP:BIO? Most of the sources cited in the article are to Facebook posts, and the creator might have a WP:COI. If, however, the subject is notable, those things could possibly be cleaned up or better sources could be found. I'm not sure whether this article would fall within the scope of this project, but the article claims this person is a "sultan" so perhaps it might. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:49, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Unknown Archon#Requested move 22 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Feeglgeef (talk) 02:59, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if this person was actually a count, and if so, that he was notable. Please find sources. Ping me if you need any help. Bearian (talk) 02:10, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Sweyn II of Denmark#Requested move 14 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 20:49, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prince Gharios El Chemor of Ghassan Al-Numan VIII

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I opened a discussion on the BLP noticeboard here regarding Prince Gharios El Chemor of Ghassan Al-Numan VIII. In July he had a BLP that was deleted. That was actually the second creation of the article (at least), but because the original editor of the latest article used a different title, it looked like it was the first. The first AfD has been blanked as a courtesy. I've opened the discusssion to see if those article titles can be salted. Just an FYI if you want to participate. --19:49, 16 December 2024 (UTC) Gym Samba (talk) 19:49, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Postnominal letters and infoboxes

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See Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography#MOS:POSTNOM for discussion. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Eystein I of Norway#Requested move 17 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 00:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York#Requested move 23 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 03:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have we got lists of reliable and unreliable websites for genealogical research?

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Asking because I'm looking at several articles about noble families, which often have poor sourcing, such as WP:SELFPUB blogs or WP:USERGENERATED websites which reject all responsibility for accuracy of information, while other websites appear to be quite reliable and useful for us. It probably won't be worth it to take every single case to WP:RSP, because writing about noble families is usually limited to this WikiProject. So, have we got a list of reliable and unreliable websites for genealogical research? If so, where can I see it? If not, should we make one? It makes checking the quality of sources for a large set of articles a lot easier. NLeeuw (talk) 19:26, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I'm gonna start building up these lists until I get a response, or find lists if there are any. I'll go through both the archives of the Reliable Source Noticeboard and the WikiProject Royalty and Nobility for the term "genealogical websites" and variations thereof. Once we have lists of reliable and unreliable websites, we no longer need to reinvent the wheel by assessing whether source A is reliable for article B, but whether source A can be used on enwiki at all, and if so, to be used in multiple other articles that could use some improvements, or if not, require a purge. This may start off as mostly a note-to-self, but this is relevant for everyone working in this content area, and some previous decisions and assessments already apply right now, and have already been implemented over the years, particularly those of WP:RSP. NLeeuw (talk) 10:42, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Genealogical websites listed at WP:RSP

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  • Peerage websites (self-published)
NLeeuw (talk) 11:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Genealogical websites discussed in the Reliable Sources Noticeboard archives

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It is currently used in 1,206 (!) enwiki articles – holy *peep*! Deprecating and replacing genealogy.eu should be a priority for us. NLeeuw (talk) 02:00, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Genealogical websites discussed in the WikiProject Royalty and Nobility talk archives

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  • ...
NLeeuw (talk) 11:00, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Genealogical websites not yet assessed

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Examples (I'm currently mostly working on Russia noble families, but it could be about anywhere, so this list is not representative):

Seems WP:RS

Настоящая биографическая или тематическая статья является электронной, адаптированной к современному русскому языку версией статьи, из 86-томного Энциклопедического Словаря Брокгауза и Ефрона (1890—1907 гг.) или Нового Энциклопедического Словаря (1910—1916 гг.). Тексты всех статей оставлены неизменными. This biographical or thematic article is an electronic version of an article from the 86-volume Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary (1890-1907) or the New Encyclopedic Dictionary (1910-1916), adapted to the modern Russian language. The texts of all articles are left unchanged.

WP:SELFPUB, WP:USERGENERATED or other issues

I en Wiki får alla vara med och bidra med sina kunskaper och det är både lätt och roligt. Vår förhoppning är att många ska skriva information från sin egen släktforskning så att vi tillsammans kan komplettera traditionella källor. (...) Till varje sida finns det en diskussionssida där man kan skriva om man finner tveksamma uppgifter i en artikel och kanske inte vill ändra i direkt artikeln.
In a Wiki, everyone gets to join in and contribute their knowledge, and it's both easy and fun. Our hope is that many people will write information from their own genealogy so that together we can supplement traditional sources. (...) For each page, there is a discussion page where you can write if you find questionable information in an article and perhaps do not want to change the article directly. There you can also write questions and thoughts about the article.}

Внимание! Базу составляют информация из открытой печати и сведения, сообщенные нам посетителями. База не может служить юридическим доказательством родственных связей, но является основой для дальнейших исследований, вспомогательным материалом. Именно поэтому здесь часто не указаны источники информации - в настоящем генеалогическом исследовании каждое слово подтверждается архивными справками, вам все равно придется обращаться в архивы или к профессиональным генеалогам. Если хотите добавить известную Вам информацию, пообщаться на форуме, отправляйтесь в соответствующую часть сайта, чтобы сообщить об обнаруженных ошибках или убрать сведения о себе, пишите на странице обратной связи или напишите ведущей сайта
Attention! The database consists of information from the open press and information provided to us by visitors. The database cannot serve as legal evidence of family ties, but is the basis for further research, auxiliary material. This is why sources of information are often not indicated here - in a real genealogical study, every word is confirmed by archival certificates, you will still have to contact the archives or professional genealogists. If you want to add information you know, communicate on the forum, go to the appropriate part of the site to report errors or remove information about yourself, write on the feedback page or write to the site host

Unassessed
  • genealogia.ru ?
  • russianfamily.ru ?
  • russiannobility.org Russian Nobility Association in America. WP:USERGENERATED? used in 15 enwiki articles
  • svenskadel.nu ?
  • russiarevisited.com expired domain name
  • oldkiev.info expired domain name
  • vybor.gorod.dn.ua deadlink
  • Feb-web.ru ?
  • liveuamap.com useful for military OSINT, but probably not very useful for genealogical research
  • peoples.ru/about Although content is apparently submitted by project users (Проект Люди является общедоступным, и наполняемым пользователями проекта), it does have some editorial review / control. Might be reliable case-by-case.
  • ...

NLeeuw (talk) 19:26, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll comment on the ones from Sweden:
There is also the older Svenska adelns ättartaflor, by Gabriel Anrep, which should be avoided, as it contains family traditions of dubious value.
Andejons (talk) 21:33, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Andejons Thanks for this contribution! So I suppose that Adelsvapen wiki is based on Den introducerade svenska adelns ättartavlor, but users are allowed to add their own genealogy and other contents in a collaborate manner just like Wikipedia? I guess that would mean we still shouldn't use Adelsvapen wiki as a source, but go straight to the original text of Elgenstierna (if we can find it), as that can be relied on? The usergenerated expanded online version of it just cannot be trusted as much. It seems much like the WP:BRITANNICA situation; a digitised version of a printed original that has been updated and expanded, but editorial control over this new online version may not be as rigorous. NLeeuw (talk) 21:48, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One that still gets used in MedLands[11], discussedany times and isn't reliable. Commonly used for offspring and spouses, as MedLands has a very bad habit of linking anything with the same name. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 00:22, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ActivelyDisinterested Hey, didn't you and I and some others deprecate MedLands 1.5 years ago at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 405#fmg.ac (Foundation for Medieval Genealogy)? I do see that most access-dates in your search result are between 2024-09-30 and 2024-10-22, so these are probably recent re-introductions of MedLands into enwiki, apparently all by the same new User:Vittoriobr who joined enwiki in late 2023, so a few months after we removed all those refs to MedLands in May 2023. For the record Vittoriobr: we appreciate your contributions, but fmg.ac (Foundation for Medieval Genealogy), alias Medieval Lands (MedLands) by Charles Cawley, is not a reliable source. We should not be using it anymore, but seek to replace it with a better source. As a relatively new user, you might not have known that, so we're explaining that to you now. :) NLeeuw (talk) 01:47, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Eric XIV of Sweden#Requested move 18 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 04:26, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]